How does a sport BJJ Gi Grappler beat a no gi Grappler?

[GuardMaster]

I'm talking about everyday grapplers not people competing world class.

Think about it you spend 80-90% of your class time rolling around with a gi. Then one day you gotta grapple a guy in a tie shirt whose school specializes in no gi grappling. Do you suddenly say , "all my juijitsu is useless as I have almost no experience because of his choice of clothing". Or do you have a backup plan? Maybe the use of all kinds of chokes with your own gi, in addition to no gi submissions.

My reason point is not that you can't rely on armbars and triangles etc, but rather the grip for controlling takedowns etc is gone because of the lack of gi.

How do you make up for that big disadvantage? Use only a subset of your sport BJJ gi grappling moves which may rely on no gi. For most of us specializing in both will never happen. And the gi does seem to predominate for tournaments. But when fighting someone from another style, like shootwrestling, wrestling etc even without the punches, I'd suddenly wonder if you'd have to learn a no gi game from scratch instead of just adapting your current gi game.

In this months grappling magazine there was a cool choke of Gene Lebell using his gi to choke out a no gi guy. Any more useful go moves?

I know theres the ezekiel choke, but what else? What if you had to rely on YOUR gi if you could use it against a no gi grappler.

GuardMaster

[Lacrymosa]

I'm not a great competitor or anything, but I find that the transition between "gi" and "no-gi" is pretty smooth for BJJ. Of course, you have to deal with your weapons differently without a gi....and obviously, some of the techniques that require a gi (collar chokes, some sweeps, etc.) are no longer at your disposal.

The basic idea is still the same: position, simple holds, transitions; still hold the "game plan" without a gi. When not using a gi, sure I'm disappointed that the clock choke isn't in my arsenal anymore.....or that I can't burn some time with the Spider Guard, but the downsides are minimal at best.

In a gi vs. no-gi match, I tend to like the matchup because of how the oppenent clings to the gi. When the opponent isn't wearing a gi but KNOWS all about rolling with a kimono....THAT'S where I start feeling disadvantaged.

The Ezekiel choke is definitely my favorite in gi vs. no-gi matches.
I also find that the "Scissor Sweep" works pretty well if you can catch them holding your gi lapel for dear life.

[Hookah Smokin Caterpillar]

I'm not sure what your question was so...

If you're talking about a guy who trains no Gi only vs. a guy who trains in a Gi in a no Gi match, the advatage still obviously goes to the guy that trains in a Gi. For one, I'm a white belt and when I went to Chris Brennan's to roll with some of his students (who are great no Gi grapplers obviously) I noticed that I had an advantage even over the blue belts. Now obviously I didn't go crazy and tap everyone out, but I really felt good against everyone there. Something I'm not however able to do in my BJJ class.

Now if you're talking about the guy who trains in a Gi wear it, then I think the advantage somewhat goes to the guy with no Gi. While he can never submit the guy whose wearing a Gi by using it, he will use it to get position and keep it however. The only advantage to having the Gi is more subs.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Royler Gracie's column from a month ago in Grappling magazine made some interesting comments about this. His main point was that even though there were some differences between no-gi and gi grappling that people who trained most of the time and learned techniques with the gi had a tighter, more technical way than those that don't. But if you do enter a no-gi tournament you have to spend time training without it and getting accustomed to using more strength to grip and control.

[duchman]

i'm also not realy understanding what youre question is?

but,
for no gi vs gi, you should buy free fight tape from holland, wich has a japanese judoka vs a dutch free fighter and stongman competitior (huge guy) the judoka uses his own gi to throw him and to choke him out.

a lot of moves that you can do with the gi you can't with out the gi. like collar chokes, in no gi it is easier to get a leg lock because they can't pull up on youre sleeves and pants, but the longer the match continues the more sweat the less easier to get the sub.

my advice train in and gi and with out the gi (no t-shirt eather)

[JMall]

I would have to disagree with Royler:

"His main point was that even though there were some differences between no-gi and gi grappling that people who trained most of the time and learned techniques with the gi had a tighter, more technical way than those that don't."

No-Gi is just as technical and tight as training with a gi. The issue is not whether you wear a gi or not but how long and hard you work on your technique.

If you train all the time with a gi and then roll no-gi you are at a disadvantage for sure. The same can be said if you train all the
time no-gi and then you throw on a gi.

There is a lot of crossover in technique for sure. But if you rely on the collar and sleeve to control your opponent and set up submissions then you will possibly lose your offense when you roll no-gi.

The real issue is what do you want to accomplish. Do you want to learn and compete in sport jiu jitsu or do you want to compete in no-gi grappling events or MMA.

If you want to compete no-gi or MMA then you better train without the gi. Specialize in no-gi because even Royler admitted:

"if you do enter a no-gi tournament you have to spend time training without it (the gi)."

[treelizard]

Wow, what an old thread to revive.

I do think the gi can make one more technical...IF you grab your opponent's gi instead of limb (so it's easier to transfer to no-gi) and if you let them grab your gi as much as they want (if you can slip out of THAT you can slip out of anything.)

The people I know who have trained gi and switched to no-gi say it takes about a week or two to settle into it.

[kingoftheforest]

Originally Posted by treelizard

Wow, what an old thread to revive.

I do think the gi can make one more technical...IF you grab your opponent's gi instead of limb (so it's easier to transfer to no-gi) and if you let them grab your gi as much as they want (if you can slip out of THAT you can slip out of anything.)

The people I know who have trained gi and switched to no-gi say it takes about a week or two to settle into it.

I agree with this. The only real difference is an adjustment in range. If you're doing a technique properly than anything your opponent sticks out at you will be grabbed.

I think it would be beneficial to train gi and no gi grappling. Plus even if guys wearing a Tee shirt it's still something to grab and off balance him with. If your training grappling.

[treelizard]

Oops, I meant to write if you grab their limb instead of gi...

But people in no-gi generally frown upon you grabbing clothing either because they don't want to mess up their brand new TapOut shirts they just got off the internet or because they think it's "cheating." I got in trouble once for grabbing someone's shorts when trying to pass his guard (over/under)... In a lot of competitions you're not allowed to grab clothing. I think that's a stupid rule personally but for what it's worth.

[kingoftheforest]

Originally Posted by treelizard

Oops, I meant to write if you grab their limb instead of gi...

But people in no-gi generally frown upon you grabbing clothing either because they don't want to mess up their brand new TapOut shirts they just got off the internet or because they think it's "cheating." I got in trouble once for grabbing someone's shorts when trying to pass his guard (over/under)... In a lot of competitions you're not allowed to grab clothing. I think that's a stupid rule personally but for what it's worth.

Hey the Greeks wrestled naked because they knew you would grab clothing if it was on. The nude rule was to keep people from "cheating".

Personally I wouldn't want to see UFC nude up. But clothing grabbing is gonna happen just because it's there.

I've seen cage fighters get dragged into arm bars by their gloves. I guess you should learn to use everything to your advantage.

[San-kaku]

Gi vs No-Gi works both ways in terms of control.
Sure your opponent can use your Gi to control you, but the Gi can also work to your advantage because it soaks up their sweat and gives you a bit more friction making it a lot more difficult for them to just slip out and escape submission attempts for example if you attempt an armbar from guard - you can wrap your gi around their arm to tie it up and making it very difficult to pull their arm away.

You can also use the Gi to smother and suffocate your opponent when you get on top of them - forcing them to make mistakes etc.

[Tant01]

Originally Posted by kingoftheforest

.....
I've seen cage fighters get dragged into arm bars by their gloves. I guess you should learn to use everything to your advantage.

..........exactly...

[treelizard]

I'm getting a purple gi.

[treelizard]

Sorry. I had to share that with the team.

[Bjjexpertise@be]

Originally Posted by treelizard

I'm getting a purple gi.

No way, that's awesome! So how long have you been training now and how many times a week? Share with us some insight. I've been training 2 years and never been graded .