Those Crazy Kung Fu guys at it again - Page 3

flyinclockchoke · 10-08-2001, 12:14 PM

How did those western boxers beat the SANDA guys when the boxers weren't even allowed to kick or throw?

Why would the Chinese press report the MT fighters in Beijing as Lumpini champions?

How does introducing SANSHOU to the NE US, being a referee and trainer make you an expert on Chinese politics, Chinese culture and Chinese media? Why would you even bring it up? Is it even relevant to what we're talking about?

Szczepankiewicz · 10-08-2001, 12:24 PM

Hate crimes start with hate speach. Let's leave off with the name calling....

Can't we all just get along?

On a side note, when anyone responds to FCC in these threads, can you sum up his argument in your reply. It hurts my brain trying to follow his advanced logic, so I just skip ahead to the replies....

SZ

bobby_steeles · 10-08-2001, 12:43 PM

hey sidder, how old are you?

LKFMDC · 10-08-2001, 05:02 PM

Sidder,

Why don't you name the supposed person who "cleaned up in San Shou" but told you that he "woudn't last 30 seconds in a Muay Thai ring"?

USA WKF national San Shou champion Marvin Perry just won the USKBA Muay Thai title by KO in 59 seconds a very strong fighter from Russia

Richard Acosta, USASKF #1 ranked san Shou fighter, is undefeated in Muay Thai rules matches

Yousef Taghizadeh, USASKF World Champion and former champion of Iran, also undefeated in Muay Thai matches

I'd like to know who this mysterious person that you claim you know is, as most San Shou people LOVE to fight under Muay Thai rules in the US and do very well

In addition, you claim that the San Shou fighters that took part in K-1 had trained Mauy Thai is a LIE, pure and simple. The two fighters were An Hu and Tian Jin. Neither has done ANY Muay Thai. The fact they didn't throw a single knee in any of their fights is good evidence of this by the way

Notice how Flyingclockchoke changed the issue. At first he asked who I had talked to. Once I stated who, he changed it to some sort of issue of "culture"

Again, get over it, the Muay Thai guys lost despite being able to knee and elbow. And FCC owes me a lot of money

sidder · 10-08-2001, 06:06 PM

It wasn't in the US. It was in Toronto, Canada. And the San Shou guy I'm talking about in the K-1 was named Cung Le or something like that. You can express all the righteous indignation you like, but as I said, it's impossible to dispute the fact that San Shou is horribly unstandardized with huge dispararities between the few really badass guys (many of the Russian guys do train in Muay Thai or kyokushin for their striking skills) and the many mediocre fighters. I honestly don't know about your school, but I know of a few San Shou teachers in Toronto and Canada who've studied or are in the process of studying muay thai in order to supplement their admittedly relatively poor striking skills. Moreover, I grappled with one of the aforementioned formener San Shou lightweight Canadian tournament guys and submitted him relatively easily. And no, I won't give you his name. If you choose not to believe me, I understand. You seem to have alot invested in the great San Shou. I recommend going to ANY local muay thai school and comparing the striking skills that you've learned to what those guys are doing and judge for yourself.

flyinclockchoke · 10-08-2001, 11:37 PM

I didn't change the subject at all. This whole time, we've been talking about "culture" and how the chinese media & government uses propoganda to "brainwash" the citizens into thinking that SANDA (Chinese Kung Fu) is the best in the world.

The SANDA promoters said in the press and on TV that MT was the BEST martial art in the world. Which means, if SANDA defeats MT, SANDA is the best martial art in the world. It's all a clever way to bring SANDA to the national spotlight and a way to SELL and MAKE MONEY from the Chinese people. Like I said before, unless you speak DIRECTLY to those involved from both sides, you're not getting the whole picture. As someone else mentioned, you might not even get the whole picture anyway, because they'll be biased in what they tell you. They will outright lie to the Chinese people, so why won't they lie to you? Your best bet is to be informed and know the cultural dynamics involved.

CULTURE has everything to do with it... The SANDA culture in the United States is completely different than the SANDA culture in China. I don't even train striking all that much. I have no preference for MT or boxing or SANDA. I just know how the Chinese organizers and press run things around here. It is all propoganda. The only reason they had set up a SANDA vs BOXING was because they knew SANDA was gonna kick the shit outta boxing... But even then, they had guys that lost... so what's up with that? Why would they deliberately make an unfair matchup? What is the honor in that?

I'm not talking about style vs style... a punch is just a punch, a kick is just a kick... I'm talking about the whole organization of such events here in China. Go back and read my posts!!!

Like I said, let me do some fact finding for ya... If you're right, I'll give you your money!

sidder · 10-09-2001, 02:24 AM

I'm 32.

Bau · 10-09-2001, 06:35 AM

You have to remember that Sanda in China and Sanda in the US are completely different as far as the standard of fighters...

The Chinese are waaaay behind the Cung Le's and Acosta's..
IMO U.S San Shou fighters are much better cross trained athletes...

From what I've seen anyways...

10-08-2001, 12:14 PM	#31 (permalink)
flyinclockchoke Novice Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 113 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	LNMCVLKDJTKNEFICDLJASDNF How did those western boxers beat the SANDA guys when the boxers weren't even allowed to kick or throw? Why would the Chinese press report the MT fighters in Beijing as Lumpini champions? How does introducing SANSHOU to the NE US, being a referee and trainer make you an expert on Chinese politics, Chinese culture and Chinese media? Why would you even bring it up? Is it even relevant to what we're talking about?

10-08-2001, 12:24 PM	#32 (permalink)
Szczepankiewicz Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Meridian, ID, USA Posts: 4,109 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Remember friends... Hate crimes start with hate speach. Let's leave off with the name calling.... Can't we all just get along? On a side note, when anyone responds to FCC in these threads, can you sum up his argument in your reply. It hurts my brain trying to follow his advanced logic, so I just skip ahead to the replies.... SZ

10-08-2001, 11:37 PM	#36 (permalink)
flyinclockchoke Novice Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 113 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	LJFADDKEOKFDMCLDEEGFMDFM I didn't change the subject at all. This whole time, we've been talking about "culture" and how the chinese media & government uses propoganda to "brainwash" the citizens into thinking that SANDA (Chinese Kung Fu) is the best in the world. The SANDA promoters said in the press and on TV that MT was the BEST martial art in the world. Which means, if SANDA defeats MT, SANDA is the best martial art in the world. It's all a clever way to bring SANDA to the national spotlight and a way to SELL and MAKE MONEY from the Chinese people. Like I said before, unless you speak DIRECTLY to those involved from both sides, you're not getting the whole picture. As someone else mentioned, you might not even get the whole picture anyway, because they'll be biased in what they tell you. They will outright lie to the Chinese people, so why won't they lie to you? Your best bet is to be informed and know the cultural dynamics involved. CULTURE has everything to do with it... The SANDA culture in the United States is completely different than the SANDA culture in China. I don't even train striking all that much. I have no preference for MT or boxing or SANDA. I just know how the Chinese organizers and press run things around here. It is all propoganda. The only reason they had set up a SANDA vs BOXING was because they knew SANDA was gonna kick the shit outta boxing... But even then, they had guys that lost... so what's up with that? Why would they deliberately make an unfair matchup? What is the honor in that? I'm not talking about style vs style... a punch is just a punch, a kick is just a kick... I'm talking about the whole organization of such events here in China. Go back and read my posts!!! Like I said, let me do some fact finding for ya... If you're right, I'll give you your money!

10-09-2001, 06:35 AM	#38 (permalink)
Bau Novice Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 90 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	China and US You have to remember that Sanda in China and Sanda in the US are completely different as far as the standard of fighters... The Chinese are waaaay behind the Cung Le's and Acosta's.. IMO U.S San Shou fighters are much better cross trained athletes... From what I've seen anyways... __________________ Everything happens for a reason....

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10-08-2001, 12:43 PM	#33 (permalink)
bobby_steeles Advanced Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: in front of my computer Posts: 650 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	hey sidder, how old are you?

10-08-2001, 05:02 PM	#34 (permalink)
LKFMDC Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 130 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Sidder, Why don't you name the supposed person who "cleaned up in San Shou" but told you that he "woudn't last 30 seconds in a Muay Thai ring"? USA WKF national San Shou champion Marvin Perry just won the USKBA Muay Thai title by KO in 59 seconds a very strong fighter from Russia Richard Acosta, USASKF #1 ranked san Shou fighter, is undefeated in Muay Thai rules matches Yousef Taghizadeh, USASKF World Champion and former champion of Iran, also undefeated in Muay Thai matches I'd like to know who this mysterious person that you claim you know is, as most San Shou people LOVE to fight under Muay Thai rules in the US and do very well In addition, you claim that the San Shou fighters that took part in K-1 had trained Mauy Thai is a LIE, pure and simple. The two fighters were An Hu and Tian Jin. Neither has done ANY Muay Thai. The fact they didn't throw a single knee in any of their fights is good evidence of this by the way Notice how Flyingclockchoke changed the issue. At first he asked who I had talked to. Once I stated who, he changed it to some sort of issue of "culture" Again, get over it, the Muay Thai guys lost despite being able to knee and elbow. And FCC owes me a lot of money

10-08-2001, 06:06 PM	#35 (permalink)
sidder Novice Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: 666 Stompin Tom Road, Thunder Bay Posts: 72 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	It wasn't in the US. It was in Toronto, Canada. And the San Shou guy I'm talking about in the K-1 was named Cung Le or something like that. You can express all the righteous indignation you like, but as I said, it's impossible to dispute the fact that San Shou is horribly unstandardized with huge dispararities between the few really badass guys (many of the Russian guys do train in Muay Thai or kyokushin for their striking skills) and the many mediocre fighters. I honestly don't know about your school, but I know of a few San Shou teachers in Toronto and Canada who've studied or are in the process of studying muay thai in order to supplement their admittedly relatively poor striking skills. Moreover, I grappled with one of the aforementioned formener San Shou lightweight Canadian tournament guys and submitted him relatively easily. And no, I won't give you his name. If you choose not to believe me, I understand. You seem to have alot invested in the great San Shou. I recommend going to ANY local muay thai school and comparing the striking skills that you've learned to what those guys are doing and judge for yourself.

10-09-2001, 02:24 AM	#37 (permalink)
sidder Novice Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: 666 Stompin Tom Road, Thunder Bay Posts: 72 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I'm 32.

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