Renzo and Royler's new BJJ book

[Frogman]

Anyone seen the new book yet? If so, is it worth buying? I've heard a couple of mixed reviews so far.

[chutebox]

not worth the regular price.

I saw it at amazon for cheap, but when I saw it in the book store, i decided not to get it. Same stuff. Actually, this book had a lot of traditional stand up jujitsu in it, not what you'd expect from the Gracies. the pictures are real small too making it hard to see details. What is considered 'black belt' moves in this book is a joke. The book doesn't contain anything above beginner to intermediate moves.

[roletta1]

I've got to disagree with the previous poster. People learn jiu jitsu many different ways, and for me, though the techniques are "basic", it is an excellent reference for how 100+ of the most important techniques are executed precisely. Granted, there are limitations to what the medium can do for you - its not a tape set. But for someone beginning who wants a technical description of a variety of the most important movements and positions, this is an outstanding text. The writing is clear and direct. I consider it by far the best text on BJJ we've seen. The Fighters notebook has some solid material as well, but it has its own shortcomings (not color, small size, less technique detail).

I'm buying copies for many of my friends who are beginning training and a few for people who don't what the hell I've been doing the last five years rolling around on mats.

healthy training...

[KyleS]

Don't buy it based on the hype, like I did

It's very nicely constructed, soft-bound, glossy pages, full-color. There are not a lot of techniques and too many of them are not "BJJ" but standing JJJ self-defense stuff. The technique description are not as detailed as I expected. The techniques are grouped by belt, but not too well IMO. Based on that, I wouldn't put too much weight on these being the "most important" either.

Disclaimer, I haven't gone through every page as of yet. Definitely try to check it out before you buy it.

It does make a nice coffee table book.

- Kyle

[Capt Howdy]

I THINK IT'S AN EXCELLENT BOOK...IT'S A BOOK THAT YOU CAN EASILY READ AND APPLY WHAT YOU'VE READ. THE BOTTOM LINE IS YOU STILL HAVE TO TRAIN.....SUBMISSION COMES WITH BASIC TECHNIQUE NOT FLYING ARMBARS.......ANY LEVEL STUDENT CAN BENEFIT FROM THIS BOOK.........CH

[KenJeet]

I think it is by far the best Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu book out there. However, some of the comments on the previous post just confirm what Helio Gracie has said time and time again, "I know when someone is not doing Gracie Jiu-Jitsu as endorsed by me, when they never learn self defense techniques!!!" I read on one of the post that the book is very inlike the Gracies because it shows stand up techniques. Perhaps, you may have never learned Gracie Jiu-Jitsu as taught by Helio Gracie and Rorian. But as you can see, Royler made it a point to show the much ignored Self Defense techniques that I believe are very important to the system. Many people today just practice on the ground from day one and never get taught the self defense because the instructors don't know it. With regards to the guy who said that the black belt techniques were a joke, you should first be informed before you trash something. I asked Royler personally why the book was divided in that fashion and he himself told me that he did not want to personally break it up by belt level. However, that prince or sheik form Abu Dhabi preferred it that way and he was the one who financed the book. I agree that there are black belt self defense techniques that I learned as a white belt, but they just had to put it together somehow. If you practice pure Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, you will pretty much notice that the book is identical to most of the basic to intermediate requirements that one must learn to excel.

[Capt Howdy]

KEN JEET YOU ARE WISE BEYOND YOUR YEARS.......

[KyleS]

"If you practice pure Gracie Jiu-Jitsu,"

Whatever, dude. I think that 95% of the people taking BJJ don't care about the "self-defense" crap in the book. If I did, I would go to a JJJ instructor. It is not something I expected or wanted when buying a book on BJJ.

- Kyle

[Capt Howdy]

KYLE I'M NOT SURE WHAT YOUR SAYING.....DO YOU NOT THINK THAT BJJ IS NOT SELF DEFENSE? I'VE BEEN TRAINING ALMOST THREE YEARS AND FROM WHAT I'VE SEEN MOST SCHOOLS DO NOT TEACH ENOUGH STANDUP OR PRACTICAL SELF DEFENSE. LETS FACE IT MOST PEOPLE THAT GET INVOLVED IN THE SPORT ARE IN IT TO GOING TO COMPETE ON ANY LEVEL , THEY WANT TO LEARN HOW TO FIGHT........IF YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO CONVINCE THE DRUNK AT THE BAR HITTING ON YOUR GIRLFRIEND TO START FROM THE GUARD YOUR OK, OTHERWISE YOU NEED STANDUP.......CH

[t-wrekx]

Hi all this is my first time at this board.

My comment is that any information you can find will benefit you. I have only been training in bjj for a little over a month, but have trained the last 17 years in tkd, so any info I can find outside of class will help me in the long run. So I plan to get the book because there are so many techniques in bjj that I will never remember them all so a book will help a lot.

[Szczepankiewicz]

T-wrekx-
I must disagree. Any information you receive is only valuable if it is accurate and timely.

If you receive incorrect instruction (or in the case of a book, you interpret the information incorrectly) then you will perform the technique incorrectly. You then develop bad practices. It is much harder to unlearn the bad habits and then learn the good ones.

As the saying goes, "Practice does not make perfect. Practice makes permanant."

Worst case: you end up hurting yourself or your training partner.

Best case: you just don't know what you are doing.


Now, having the extended background that you have, more information is a good thing because you have developed those skills that allow you to discriminate between the good and bad, useful and useless. You can also tell when you have performed a technique correctly or incorrectly.

My sensei discourages certain levels of students from crosstraining or researching other arts until they reach a certain level. Once they have a solid foundation in our art, then crosstraining and research is strongly encouraged.

Studying techniques from books and tapes is a dangerous practice if you don't have the necessary experience.

"Hey, I saw this move on WWF RAW last night!'

What's your take on what I have said?

Peace,

SZ

[Szczepankiewicz]

BTW- Welcome to the board.

[chutebox]

". I asked Royler personally why the book was divided in that fashion and he himself told me that he did not want to personally break it up by belt level. However, that prince or sheik form Abu Dhabi preferred it that way and he was the one who financed the book"

Right, exacly waht I said. So what you are saying is, Royler sold out and gave everyone incorrect information. Thos ARE NOT black belt techniques.

So now we know the book was not written by Renzo and Royler's direction and teaching method.

Another thing about the self defense: When is the last time you saw anyone use one of those traditional jiu-jitsu self defense moves against someone in vale tudo? Did Royce finish anyone in the ufc with one of those standing moves? Has Rickson used a standing wristlock on anyone? Oh yes, the standing two handed throat grab is very popular amonst professional fighters. GIVE ME A BREAK! So for self defense, we are supposed to assume that everyone sucks? All JJ is self defense, that's besides the point. There are a much larger selection of stand up moves that are far more effective that could have been put in this book, they are not there. NOT TO MENTION, this book offers NOTHING without the gi.

I say stop trying to spoon feed this crap to the American public and give us the real deal. This book will go the same way that Rorian's BS videos did when people start releasing authentic material.

There was nothing honest about the way this book was written or marketed:
300 pages??? try 255 + some extra BS about the Sheik ... who bought his way into the book.
Encyclopedia of Jiu-jitsu (yes, they really said that)? BS, 110 moves is hardly a reference guide.
By Renzo & Royler Gracie??? The only thing by them is the fact that they are in the pictures. The technical direction and structure comes from the sheik, the writing is done by one of Renzo' s students. The Gracie's just posed for the pictures.

The lack of structure in the book is appalling coming from two champion black belts.

It wouldn't bother me so much if it were marketed as BJJ Beginner techniques, because that's all it is.

[KenJeet]

ChuteBox,

Let me ask you one question. Who do you train with in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu? Did you already know these self defense techniques that are in Royler and Renzo's book? Royler did not give people incorrect information. He just divided up the techniques in a specific fashion because thats how the prince or sheik from Abu Dhabi wanted it. However, most of the techniques he shows are taught at the Gracie Academy and by Helio Gracie. You can't tell me that learning those techniques are crap because that is as pure as it gets. The reason you do not see people using those self defense moves in mixed martial arts is because they are strictly self defense moves not a sport. Mixed martial arts are based off of the premise of fighting. In other words, two people standing toe to toe in a match style of fight and saying "I'm going to show you what I've got, now I want you to show me what you've got." It is a lot different than being at a bar, someone getting pissed off at you and trying to grab you in a headlock and smack you into the wall. Or, a lady being assaulted in a parking lot by a guy who is grabbing her by the neck. Keep in mind that the UFC does not provide all truths to combat, but just one truth, that you must be conditioned and well rounded. Believe it or not, it is the simplicity of these self defense moves that make them worthwhile. As Erik Paulson once told me, "You'll be surprised at the progress that comes from doing simple things well."

[t-wrekx]

I agree with you SZ in that in the wrong hands a book or tape can be a bad thing unless you have attained a certain level of skill to start with.

I have always researched other arts through book or tapes sometimes to see what makes them different or pick up a technique or two I could use. I have many books on TKD and use them alot as referance becasue one can forget a thing or two.

So as a referance a book or tape is great but only if you have learned the technique first.

That is my 2 cents or 0.01 cents cnd.