Kosen Judo and Gracie Jiu-jitsu

[flyinclockchoke]

I've been doing some digging on the internet regarding Kosen Judo and I've read that the practice of Kosen Judo didn't become prominent until around 1914... the same year that Maeda would have travelled to Brazil and taught Carlos Gracie.

By 1925 Kosen Judo was so popular in Japan that it had broke away from Kodokan traditions and Jigoro Kano, in fact, encouraged Kosen Judoka to further develop and refine the newaza that they were already so adept at. They were given their own rules and their own tournaments, apart from Kodokan rules to participate in.

Regardless of what style Maeda trained in, Carlos Gracie was indeed a student of Maeda's. According to Helio Gracie, Carlos was Maeda's student for approximately a year or two. Maeda had an academy and also had other students in Brazil besides Carlos Gracie.

So, Carlos taught the techniques to his younger brothers and we all know the rest of the story. In 1925, the Gracie Jiu-jitsu Academy first opened it's doors in Rio de Janeiro.

Given that Brazil and Japan are so far away from each other, and that Carlos Gracie had approximately 1-2 years of training with Maeda, it seems logical to assume that Gracie Jiu-jitsu developed in isolation from Kosen Judo. Afterall, Kosen Judo didn't become prominent until 1914, the year that Maeda travelled to Japan. The Gracies had never travelled to Japan at the time, and couldn't have "learned" or trained more with other Japanese Jiu-jitsu or Judoka.

Kosen Judo does not allow strikes in their tournaments. The Gracies call their style Jiu-jitsu and not Judo, because they allowed strikes. Their art was for self-defense. Maeda's roots were in Jiu-jitsu and he was indeed fond of NHB, a practice which the Gracies adopted. Besides, we all know how dramatically the game and techniques change once you allow strikes on the ground. Half the moves you use in a sport setting get thrown out the door. Not every sport BJJ or Judo player can make the transition to NHB.

Historically, Gracie Jiu-jitsu may have had it's roots in Kosen Judo. However, it's safe to say that the Gracies developed and refined their Jiu-jitsu in isolation from the Japanese.

[duchman]

i hate to break up youre logic but meade was a Kodokan student. there are some pictures on the net of him being instructed by kano.
Bjj has it roots in judo.

[hounddog]

duchman, you know a lot about judo but you sure didn't know much when I was beating you at will and tossing your bike in the river.

[Szczepankiewicz]

That's ok, those "big wheels" are all plastic and float pretty good. I am sure he had no problem fishing it out....

[duchman]

houndog,

stop trolling on a good thread

[bobby_steeles]

before houndog got on here, there was only one reply. that's not much of a "thread"...
sorry about your bike.

[flyinclockchoke]

The point of my post was not to determine the roots of Gracie Jiu-jitsu. It was merely to point out that the Gracies developed and refined their techniques in isolation from the Japanese.

[sccr06]

hmmm...maybe that's why they have such bad habits as far as takedowns are concerned, what with flopping to guard and all.