What is the diffrence with BRAZILIAN JUJITSU AND JAPANESE JUJITSU?

[Tant01]

The fact is I'm not insulting anyone... I like the GJJ, just fine...

I don't care for the dedicated zealots that like to think BJJ is the solution to every problem...

[Hardball]

I wanna pose a question for the BJJ players in this thread. I have Royce's BJJ book and I notice he has kicks in it. The question is when you first started BJJ as a white belt were you taught the basic kicks and Strikes? In the intermediate belts how much do you work on kicks and punches?

[DJColdfusion]

Originally Posted by Tant01

The fact is I'm not insulting anyone... I like the GJJ, just fine...

I don't care for the dedicated zealots that like to think BJJ is the solution to every problem...

Oh, and you don't think that the same type of people inhabit the worl of Judo?

They're everywhere and anywhere people have decided to divide whatever it is they areinterested in into different little tribal entities. Its in BJJ, TKD, JKD, FMA, HKD, Gung Fu, religion, politics, underwear choice, EVERYWHERE. You can either transcend it ir wallow in it. Your vehemence just identifies you as the type of zealot you claim to despise.

[DJColdfusion]

Originally Posted by Hardball

I wanna pose a question for the BJJ players in this thread. I have Royce's BJJ book and I notice he has kicks in it. The question is when you first started BJJ as a white belt were you taught the basic kicks and Strikes? In the intermediate belts how much do you work on kicks and punches?

Very few schools work on the kicks Royce is seen demonstrating, which were one of the key elements taught to Carlos sr. by Maeda . . . I had read accounts of his fighting style and he used the kicks to enter into a clinch and work the takedown or throw from there.

More instructors should look at them and at least expose their students to them, for the sake of history. I see much more time spent on defending against the straight style of kick, that Royce demonstrates in his book, but it is still far too rare in my opinion.

There are also many, many schools that share school space with instructors of other martial arts and will quite often acquiesce to allow the other instructor to teach the striking. We have a Muay Thai coach, a pro-boxing coach (David Tua's dad and bother), two different Jiu-Jitsu coaches, a wrestling coach (just returned from Greco tournaments in Greece and Turkey).

BJJ has a ton of takedowns and throws but even though we have two Jiu-Jitsu instructors we leave takedowns and throws to our wrestling coach who is one of the best in the world (and a BJJ brown belt), other schools do the same type of thing.

[Tant01]

Originally Posted by DJColdfusion

Oh, and you don't think that the same type of people inhabit the worl(d) of Judo?

.....

I've never been told that Judo is bullet proof.

Shall we move on?

How many (exactly) is a brazillion?

[Tant01]

"Brazilian jiu-jitsu is very much a grappling art. However, there are strikes in Brazilian jiu-jitsu. Most often these are utilized from grappling positions where the opponent cannot hit back effectively... In addition there is often a good deal of striking from the clinch position while standing...There are times, however, when the jiu-jitsu fighter launches into strikes without holding on to the opponent in any way, just as a practitioner of the striking arts would. With regard to these strikes, Brazilian jiu-jitsu favors the use of the elbows and knees for striking..."

BJJ Theory and Technique pg. 156


"Brazilian jiu-jitsu does not generally encourage pugilistic skills..."

Pg.118

[Hardball]

Royce utilized the front thurst kick a lot. I mean almost every fight I ever saw him in. This has turned into a decent discussion.

[The_Judo_Jibboo]

Originally Posted by DJColdfusion

The referencing of BJJ as "Judo newaza" is the issue and it is incorrect

out of curiousity, why exactly do you see this as incorrect?

[Tant01]

WHAT JUJUTSU ISN'T
by Brett Denison


....Because of the nature of traditional jujutsu it is impossible to safely fit it into any type of competitive forum.

This means that regardless of what it might be called by promoters or competitors, competitions and sporting events that present themselves as representing jujutsu, are merely misleading the public.

http://www.usadojo.com/articles/jujutsu-isnt.htm

[DJColdfusion]

Originally Posted by The_Judo_Jibboo

out of curiousity, why exactly do you see this as incorrect?

Judo and Jiu-Jitsu (the Brazilian style) are two completely different arts whether or not BJJ finds its roots in pre-Olympic Judo or not. Just as Judo is not JJJ even if it finds its roots in JJJ.

Calling Judo watered down Jiu-Jitsu or referencing it as incomplete would be insulting.

Referencing BJJ as "Judo newaza" is an attempt to marginalize the entire art by inferring its very existence as unnecessary or irrelevant . . . which is, to be as eloquent as I possibly can, simply bullshit.

[treelizard]

Originally Posted by Tant01

WHAT JUJUTSU ISN'T
by Brett Denison


....Because of the nature of traditional jujutsu it is impossible to safely fit it into any type of competitive forum.

This means that regardless of what it might be called by promoters or competitors, competitions and sporting events that present themselves as representing jujutsu, are merely misleading the public.

http://www.usadojo.com/articles/jujutsu-isnt.htm

I thought that all the throws of Judo were changed from their previous forms which all crush the opponent's knee.

[Hardball]

Originally Posted by treelizard

I thought that all the throws of Judo were changed from their previous forms which all crush the opponent's knee.

That's a first. Where did you hear that one?

[shinbushi]

Here are some links of the oldest form of jujutsu Takenouchi Ryu.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRNSTj5I7xI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHyCsmn44NY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOs4fuBRBBY

[Tant01]

Originally Posted by DJColdfusion

Judo and Jiu-Jitsu (the Brazilian style) are two completely different arts whether or not BJJ finds its roots in pre-Olympic Judo or not. Just as Judo is not JJJ even if it finds its roots in JJJ.

Calling Judo watered down Jiu-Jitsu or referencing it as incomplete would be insulting.

Referencing BJJ as "Judo newaza" is an attempt to marginalize the entire art by inferring its very existence as unnecessary or irrelevant . . . which is, to be as eloquent as I possibly can, simply bullshit.

Changing the name of something doesn't change the thing itself into a new thing, it only disguises it as something else.

How is modern BJJ not Judo? Seriously? I see nothing new or different about it but the WORDS used to name the techniques.

[Tant01]

Originally Posted by treelizard

I thought that all the throws of Judo were changed from their previous forms which all crush the opponent's knee.

Kansetsu Jeri ? Kanibasami?

there are numerous techniques that target the knee not only for destruction but because it bends there as well. stomping the knee from various angles will have different results and require it's own force.

There are many very dynamic applications of force to specific targets. The knee is one of many but again, doing this stuff can cripple your opponent. A nice crab scissors takedown for example can be used on that target itself. That would be a really crappy "throw" but a fine way to break a leg.

Throwing someone by a locked out joint or destruction of it before they have an opportunity to (submit) tap out is just not nice. Many throws can be used that defeat the ability to break the fall. In Judo you get big points for slamming them on their back but slamming the head is just as easy. It's just not very nice to play that way. For these reasons and a myriad of others there are always rules and a referee to protect the PLAYERS from serious injury (or death) in the ARENA. Sport judo has been tailored over the decades to appeal to Olympic audiences. For safety and the benifit of good health many Jujutsu techniques that did not fit the Judo philosophy were rejected by Kano.

Intentionally cripling, maiming or killing a player is just not allowed...

You know? Like stomping them when they are down... Bad form.