Gang members in marital arts

[TracyKarate]

I was wondering what some of your opinions might be on this issue. I feel that undereducated inner-city youths would greatly benefit from training in martial arts. I feel that with the right mentor, young people raised on the street have a real chance to become someone and benefit society, lose their bad attitudes and become productive citizens. Do any of you agree? I feel it is dependant on having the right instructor as well as the right art to instill morals and discipline without the "Dirty Harry" attitude that is prevelant in certain arts and dojos.

[edro]

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[mushinmaster]

I 100% agree - if the teacher uses old methods that instill the right virtues in the students. You know, wax on wax off - cleaning the dojo - all that humbleness and humility everyone frowns upon so much in here

Teaching ethics and philosophy along with martial science.

[crazyjoe380]

What do you feel about dorks in MARTIAL ARTS?
that wanna strike people they know in the throat?

TRACY'S MOM IS STREET TRASH

[TracyKarate]

Mushinmaster, I agree with you here. I believe that a martial art MUST instill those ethics and philosophies, otherwise we get the above mentioned product of the gang menmeber who is too quick to fight, disrespecting the elders of their community and overall lacking the morals and descency it takes to be an upstanding citizen. The only way these types of people are productive are by impregnating women out of wedlock and contributing to the drug and death and cime rate in America. It all comes down to the right instructor I believe.

[mushinmaster]

DEF.

[crazyjoe380]

Originally posted by TracyKarate
Mushinmaster, I agree with you here. I believe that a martial art MUST instill those ethics and philosophies, otherwise we get the above mentioned product of the gang menmeber who is too quick to fight, disrespecting the elders of their community and overall lacking the morals and descency it takes to be an upstanding citizen. The only way these types of people are productive are by impregnating women out of wedlock and contributing to the drug and death and cime rate in America. It all comes down to the right instructor I believe.

I have a Microsoft certification

i have a good job and make money...cause i used to be a gang member ..doesnt mean for you to 'try" to assasinate my character..

you talk about being humble but im playing you like a puppet. real karate/kung fu masters/in the arts will not respond they are low key..i myself don't belive in codes of honor..you are not from Los Angeles..Martial arts are for hand to hand and it's a GUN war. you said it yourself ..afgan..bombs...guns..

i'm responding and making posts about you to see if i can string you along with simple trigger words like "YOU"..."ASSHOLE" "KARATE SUCKS"..

WHAT DO YOU HAVE? yoga boy lololololololololol

[TracyKarate]

I was not speaking about you, I was referring to gang members in general. I'm not sure what you mean by the puppet metaphor, but I am glad you have your computer degree. It is a commendable effort for a person of your background and upbringing. Maybe you can work for me someday. You are correct about my not beeing a master. I will always be a student because martial arts are a lifelong journey.

[mushinmaster]

Yo dude - that sounds so arrogant and egotistical - did you read that - what happened to the true spirit of karate?

[crazyjoe380]

Originally posted by TracyKarate
I was not speaking about you, I was referring to gang members in general. I'm not sure what you mean by the puppet metaphor, but I am glad you have your computer degree. It is a commendable effort for a person of your background and upbringing. Maybe you can work for me someday. You are correct about my not beeing a master. I will always be a student because martial arts are a lifelong journey.

I APPOLOGIZED IN TWO POSTS TO YOU TRACY..

SORRY IF I WAS OUT OF HAND...BUT I GUESS YOU DIDNT READ THEM..BUT YOU KEEP IT GOING...AHAHAH IM GOING WITH YOUR FLOW

SORRY AGAIN FOR DISRESPECTING YOUR MOM LOL
DONT TAKE ME SERIOUS WHEN IM MAKING JOKES..BUT I LIKE THE ARGUMENTS WE HAVE..MAKES THE BOARD INTERESTING

[MercuryTurrent]

it can also lead to yet another flame war... and god am i sick of those x_x

[soho]

I don't know guys when people start talking about teaching discipline and respect I get a little on edge. Discipline is going to the Gym/School every day and training hard. Bowing and all that BS is not discipline rather its all about the instructor stroking their own ego, and I feel shows a lack of respect for the students. Humility does not come from silly rituals, but rather from hard workouts.

I ran into one of these so-called discipline issues today. I train at a few places. The BJJ places I go are all informal which I think is the way to go. I also go to a JKD place. Today I was told that when the instructor was showing a technique every one had to sit Indian style or do twenty push ups, because there needed to be some discipline. I've never heard of anything so silly in my life. At one point I was sitting on my knees and I was told along with another guy to do pushups. He did them, but I basically said "hey I can sit however I want" Trying to make students all sit the same way is just a power trip one the part of the instructor. You give people a little power, and they can get pretty silly.

Lets not forget Boxing gyms don't have any Rituals. Yet most people that do traditional martial arts would get there heads handed to them by a good boxer. In fact most of the people who really train hard and can really fight...Boxers, wrestlers, BJJ guys...don't bother much with the ritualistic stuff. They don't have to; it takes disciple just to keep doing it. The arts that have plenty or rituals "Big belt tests, making you all stand in straight lines, bowing...Whatever" are probably trying to distract you from the fact that your not really learning anything of substance.

As to the main point of the thread; I think athletic sports like wrestling, boxing, Judo, BJJ, Football, baseball...can be great for kids discipline and self esteem...Traditional martial arts on the other hand...I think they just create bad habits and don't even really teach you to defend yourself. Honestly I'd rather send a kid to dance class than traditional Karate or Kung Fu.

[SweepEm]

Well, let me throw my opinions out there.

First off, there are many reasons why an individual joins a gang. But the consensus is that with many single parent families, joining a gang gives this individual a sense of family and some structure. Thus the desire to join a gang, to have that sense of belonging. Some may debate this but from what I've read, this is one of the main reasons why there are gangs.
So, with many gang members, if they want to leave the gang life, martial arts may be a way to give them the self identity that they may not have. Inner City boxing programs have been very successful in taking youths out of their bad neighborhoods, to give them a purpose in
life, other than the of crime. So, to take this a step further, whether boxing or a martial arts, or a sports program, any activities with mentors, instructors and other peers will all help individuals gain respect for themselves, gain a positive identity and self esteem, along with a sense of direction and structure in their lives.

Soho: I have to disagree with a few of your points. I have friend that box and there are some "rituals" that they say that are respected in a boxing gym. It may not be in the gym you've seen or if you train boxing, then in your gym.
I look at these acts of what you call rituals as respect.


I may be wrong, but it seems obivious that you don't like to be told what to do. The bowing and the rules are there because an instructor wants them to be followed. I guess if you feel that these are silly rituals, then you should look for a school that doesn't have them. There are some martial arts schools that are very strict in their "rituals" as you call them, but to the instructors, is is a sign of respect. There are many schools where the instructors feel that it should be very casual and the rules are relaxed instead of a rigid atmosphere of some traditional martial arts. I think it's all about what you want, and what you expect. The bottom line is that if you don't like the rules in a school, there are plenty out there to find another one.

I feel that if you teach youths respect, many problems with gangs would be eliminated. Look at the inner city; if someone would respect other's property, they wouldn't put graffitti or other defacements.

[crazyjoe380]

Originally posted by soho
I don't know guys when people start talking about teaching discipline and respect I get a little on edge. Discipline is going to the Gym/School every day and training hard. Bowing and all that BS is not discipline rather its all about the instructor stroking their own ego, and I feel shows a lack of respect for the students. Humility does not come from silly rituals, but rather from hard workouts.

I ran into one of these so-called discipline issues today. I train at a few places. The BJJ places I go are all informal which I think is the way to go. I also go to a JKD place. Today I was told that when the instructor was showing a technique every one had to sit Indian style or do twenty push ups, because there needed to be some discipline. I've never heard of anything so silly in my life. At one point I was sitting on my knees and I was told along with another guy to do pushups. He did them, but I basically said "hey I can sit however I want" Trying to make students all sit the same way is just a power trip one the part of the instructor. You give people a little power, and they can get pretty silly.

Lets not forget Boxing gyms don't have any Rituals. Yet most people that do traditional martial arts would get there heads handed to them by a good boxer. In fact most of the people who really train hard and can really fight...Boxers, wrestlers, BJJ guys...don't bother much with the ritualistic stuff. They don't have to; it takes disciple just to keep doing it. The arts that have plenty or rituals "Big belt tests, making you all stand in straight lines, bowing...Whatever" are probably trying to distract you from the fact that your not really learning anything of substance.

As to the main point of the thread; I think athletic sports like wrestling, boxing, Judo, BJJ, Football, baseball...can be great for kids discipline and self esteem...Traditional martial arts on the other hand...I think they just create bad habits and don't even really teach you to defend yourself. Honestly I'd rather send a kid to dance class than traditional Karate or Kung Fu.

YOU ARE THE MAN!

very true...i beat up a takwando guy ....MUAY THAI WAS SUPERIOR...i hit dude with a knee to the face like 3 times...blood everywhere !! really i dont like karate...

this is how i train

mon: bjj

tues:boxing/vale tudo

wen:bjj

thur:boxing/vale tudo

friday: 3pm-4:30 muay thai/6pm-bjj

sat: i might rest of mauy thai box

sun:rest
i box, wrestle,bjj,thai box ...

[mushinmaster]

sounds like you got a bad instructor

i can never thank mine enough - the only thing he does like that is the only thing we can say during workouts on the bag is "usaa" - i understand. If your instructors got an ego prob, i'd get a new one, fast.