If you were in NO HOLDS BARRED comp..would want to in with MMA OR KARATE?

crazyjoe380 · 01-17-2002, 08:30 AM

IN A NO HOLDS/STREET FIGHT

WOULD YOU RATHER GO IN WITH

BOXING,MUY THAI, WRESTLING, BRAZILIAN JUJITSU

OR

KARATE

TRACY SEEMS TO SAY MUY THAI AND WRESTLING ISNT SHIT

BUT LOOK AT HIM, HE SAID HE DONT LIFT WEIGHTS, AND HE TAKES YOGA...LOLOLOL

VOTE:MMA

mushinmaster · 01-17-2002, 09:53 AM

Joe - come on bro, you're 26 years old - I'm the one in high school

Let it go - mushin

crazyjoe380 · 01-17-2002, 09:57 AM

you didnt answer the question lol

i am young at heart so there!

im only responding, that's all...he said muy thai isnt a martial art..
wrestling isnt a martial art?? lol

its the way of the board!

mushinmaster · 01-17-2002, 10:25 AM

I'm muay thai and BJJ all the way, but that's just what works for me. Primarily muay thai, but I use some shukokai karate too (tid bits from ashihara) and boxing - its a mix - take out the sport of muay thai, take out the crap from modern karate - and its really good. I'm going to be studying BJJ and wrestling next year - there isn't a place in the 'burbs, and I play ball so that's been delayed a little while.

TracyKarate · 01-17-2002, 10:49 AM

Mushinmaster, you are wise beyond your years, which is more than we can say for some on this forum. You hit the preverbial nail on the head. For the record I never said any art or "sport" for that matter was worthless, but in regards to the combat sports, the "sportive" elements must first be removed before you can look at the source of the content and discover what can be applied in the street. I don't plan on fighting in a ring with a referee, so I don't train that way. I train in a manner which is conduscive to the way I would be attacked on the street, ie with a bottle, a kick to the groin, two on one, etc. This way I will be ready to respond with the appropriate counter-attack. These are things you will not learn when studying how to do the "rope-a-dope".

crazyjoe380 · 01-17-2002, 11:07 AM

Tracy learns how to fend against a dork that doenst know anything

martial arts can be adjusted

judo-combat judo

jiu-jitsu-combat jiu-jitsu

boxing and muy thai is if you want to strike...

AMATURES dont know anything and you do mast of those moves to them ...not to someone who knows..

tracy doesnt understand the fact that sport martial arts can be switched to combat by striking the groin, small joint manipulation, eye gouge, ....SWITCH ON AND OFF LIKE A LIGHT SWITCH

OR LIKE YOUR MOM
LOL

^^^

JUST PLAYING

Zeke · 01-17-2002, 02:27 PM

Joe, I agree, the sport martial arts can be adjusted to the street. Even contact sports like Football can be adjusted to make a person a good street fighter. I have seen a lot of guys with high school, college football experience who are tough. In my experience, the best street fighters are usually guys with boxing experience. These guys are usually not great boxers, just guys with some fundamentals, who can throw a good punch and defend against punches and kicks. I'm sure the same will be true for any of the grappling sports(BJJ, wrestling, Judo). The best fighters come from sports were the techniques are used at full speed against an opponent who is trying to win. I have seen too many of those classes were a "martial art" is taught, in which the techniques are "too dangerous" to practice against a resisting opponent. I'd bet the mortagage on Ray Lewis(LB, Ravens) against the local martial arts instructor in a parking lot.

TracyKarate · 01-17-2002, 04:54 PM

I would havr to disagree with your opinion on Ray Lewis. If you are saying he were to fight a poor, incapable martial arts instructor, then of course he would win. But if you pust him in with a capable well trained martial arts instructor, who is also the same size and weight, then why would that instructor have anything to worry about?
As far as the comment made by someone who will remain nameless that I train with people who "don't know anything", I would say to never make assumptions. What is your definition of someone who "knows something"? a boxer? A jujutsu man? I train against simulated attacks that would actually happen in the street. Not someone who is going to attack with the perfect jab that I will train hours upon hours on how to slip it and bob and weave and rope-a-dope. That is sport, not reality.

YeLLa-TiGeR · 01-17-2002, 05:00 PM

I prefer Muay Thai with Wrestling myself. More emphisis on boxing when facing a wrestler.

Zeke · 01-17-2002, 05:27 PM

Tracy, you asked what a martail artist of Ray Lewis' size would have to fear. Ray Lewis might be the ultimate take down artist. With his speed, strength, and aggressiveness, if he ran at someone, tackled the person, lifting him and slamming him backward, the fight and the person's life both might end on an asphalt lot. Ray is used to taking on large strong people, often multiple opponents on the field. He often fights through two blocks. This would not be theory for him.
Another point is that the martial artist might be as big as Ray, but he would not be in Ray's league athletically. If he was a great athlete, he would be making money athletically, not teaching karate in a strip mall. I'm not trying to be rude, just practical.

TracyKarate · 01-17-2002, 05:58 PM

You are being rude by the simple tone of your message, but I will still offer my reply. Yes, Ray lewis is very athletic. But if that was what decided the outcome of an altercation, we would all be playing football and not trainng martial arts. Ray Lewis, padded literally head to toe, tackles people who are trying to run away from him while carrying an object they absolutely cannot drop. There is no connection here to a streetfight. Are you trying to say that someone can beat a trained martial artist due to the simple fact that they are very athletic? I can't say that I would agree.

TracyKarate · 01-17-2002, 06:02 PM

What will Ray Lewis do when his tackle is met with a kick to the groin? or a thumb to the eye? He would probably plead for the fight to stop--or take a "time out". This is pain he is certainly unaccustomed to, wouldn't you say?

soho · 01-17-2002, 06:20 PM

Wow I didn't realize there were still people out there that talked this "sport Vs Real Life" stuff. I thought most of us were in agreement that if you want to be able to fight standing up, you have to box. People that don't box don't know how to fight on their feet. Just like people that don't do something like BJJ, don't know how to fight on the ground. People who don't put the games together "Train Vale Tudo" probably should if they want to be good all around.

If by saying you don't want to be constrained by rules you mean you spar Vale Tudo then that's great. However if you’re just having guys put you in headlocks, and come at you Aikido style two at a time. But you don't spar because "it's not realistic enough." Well that's probably bad.

Generally a good boxer (better than you) will hit you like your standing still, and you won't be able to hit him much. A Black belt in BJJ will treat you like your nothing on the ground. And if you've never done BJJ or wrestled before a purple will have a pretty easy time with you as well. A good wrestler will take you down no problem. And personally I think I would rather fight any of them than a professional football player in their prime. Just give a pro line backer a 5 day crash course in Boxing BJJ and wrestling and he would be one tough son a ...

Zeke · 01-17-2002, 06:31 PM

No Tracy, I would say that Ray Lewis is used to a lot of pain. If a simple kick to the groin or a finger in the eye is the secret to winning, why train anything? Anybody can do that. The real secret is that it is extremely difficult to kick a person in the groin or to stick a finger in someone's eye. Most tough, athletic people naturally defend those areas. In addition, I have seen people get kicked in the groin and continue as if nothing happened.
I didn't say that football was the secret to being athletic, but athletic people tend to go toward Football, Basketball, Boxing, etc., the sports where the big money can be made.
I doubt that one will find athletes of that caliber teaching Karate or TKD in a strip mall. There may be the exception that proves the rule, but in general the instructors are not that type of athlete.
In my opinion, the average person will never be able to defeat a Ray Lewis in a fight. Ray Lewis simply has physical advantages(speed, strength, aggressiveness) that most people would never be able to overcome. You probably will not agree with that, most people in Karate type martial arts don't. I probably won't change your mind, and I doubt you will change mine.

soho · 01-17-2002, 06:34 PM

Someone who doesn't spar doesn't have the timing to kick some in the groin or get them in the eyes, because when the other guys trying to do the same thing to you it changes things a bit.

Man I guess everything old is new again. I haven't heard anyone use this line in a while. "All I have to do is kick him in the groin, thumb his eyes and that’s it...no problem" I wish you luck.

View Poll Results: Whih of these 2 STYLES would you enter in a No Holds Barred/street fight
Karate/yoga	2	16.67%
Boxing/grappling	3	25.00%
Brazilian jiu jitsu/muy thai	7	58.33%
wrestling/boxing	0	0%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

01-17-2002, 08:30 AM	#1 (permalink)
crazyjoe380 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,368	If you were in NO HOLDS BARRED comp/Street fight..FIGHT using MMA OR KARATE? IN A NO HOLDS/STREET FIGHT WOULD YOU RATHER GO IN WITH BOXING,MUY THAI, WRESTLING, BRAZILIAN JUJITSU OR KARATE TRACY SEEMS TO SAY MUY THAI AND WRESTLING ISNT SHIT BUT LOOK AT HIM, HE SAID HE DONT LIFT WEIGHTS, AND HE TAKES YOGA...LOLOLOL VOTE:MMA Last edited by crazyjoe380; 01-17-2002 at 08:38 AM.

01-17-2002, 09:53 AM	#2 (permalink)
mushinmaster Novice Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: SGF, NY Posts: 402	Joe - come on bro, you're 26 years old - I'm the one in high school Let it go - mushin __________________ Alex Bedard http://www.geocities.com/mushinmaster

01-17-2002, 10:25 AM	#4 (permalink)
mushinmaster Novice Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: SGF, NY Posts: 402	I'm muay thai and BJJ all the way, but that's just what works for me. Primarily muay thai, but I use some shukokai karate too (tid bits from ashihara) and boxing - its a mix - take out the sport of muay thai, take out the crap from modern karate - and its really good. I'm going to be studying BJJ and wrestling next year - there isn't a place in the 'burbs, and I play ball so that's been delayed a little while. __________________ Alex Bedard http://www.geocities.com/mushinmaster

01-17-2002, 10:49 AM	#5 (permalink)
TracyKarate Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 193	Mushinmaster, you are wise beyond your years, which is more than we can say for some on this forum. You hit the preverbial nail on the head. For the record I never said any art or "sport" for that matter was worthless, but in regards to the combat sports, the "sportive" elements must first be removed before you can look at the source of the content and discover what can be applied in the street. I don't plan on fighting in a ring with a referee, so I don't train that way. I train in a manner which is conduscive to the way I would be attacked on the street, ie with a bottle, a kick to the groin, two on one, etc. This way I will be ready to respond with the appropriate counter-attack. These are things you will not learn when studying how to do the "rope-a-dope". __________________ "The mind does not choose the situation, but through practice can choose how it is to be realized."

01-17-2002, 09:57 AM	#3 (permalink)
crazyjoe380 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,368	you didnt answer the question lol i am young at heart so there! im only responding, that's all...he said muy thai isnt a martial art.. wrestling isnt a martial art?? lol its the way of the board!

01-17-2002, 11:07 AM	#6 (permalink)
crazyjoe380 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,368	Tracy learns how to fend against a dork that doenst know anything martial arts can be adjusted judo-combat judo jiu-jitsu-combat jiu-jitsu boxing and muy thai is if you want to strike... AMATURES dont know anything and you do mast of those moves to them ...not to someone who knows.. tracy doesnt understand the fact that sport martial arts can be switched to combat by striking the groin, small joint manipulation, eye gouge, ....SWITCH ON AND OFF LIKE A LIGHT SWITCH OR LIKE YOUR MOM LOL ^^^ JUST PLAYING Last edited by crazyjoe380; 01-17-2002 at 11:12 AM.

01-17-2002, 02:27 PM	#7 (permalink)
Zeke Novice Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 57	Joe, I agree, the sport martial arts can be adjusted to the street. Even contact sports like Football can be adjusted to make a person a good street fighter. I have seen a lot of guys with high school, college football experience who are tough. In my experience, the best street fighters are usually guys with boxing experience. These guys are usually not great boxers, just guys with some fundamentals, who can throw a good punch and defend against punches and kicks. I'm sure the same will be true for any of the grappling sports(BJJ, wrestling, Judo). The best fighters come from sports were the techniques are used at full speed against an opponent who is trying to win. I have seen too many of those classes were a "martial art" is taught, in which the techniques are "too dangerous" to practice against a resisting opponent. I'd bet the mortagage on Ray Lewis(LB, Ravens) against the local martial arts instructor in a parking lot.

01-17-2002, 04:54 PM	#8 (permalink)
TracyKarate Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 193	I would havr to disagree with your opinion on Ray Lewis. If you are saying he were to fight a poor, incapable martial arts instructor, then of course he would win. But if you pust him in with a capable well trained martial arts instructor, who is also the same size and weight, then why would that instructor have anything to worry about? As far as the comment made by someone who will remain nameless that I train with people who "don't know anything", I would say to never make assumptions. What is your definition of someone who "knows something"? a boxer? A jujutsu man? I train against simulated attacks that would actually happen in the street. Not someone who is going to attack with the perfect jab that I will train hours upon hours on how to slip it and bob and weave and rope-a-dope. That is sport, not reality. __________________ "The mind does not choose the situation, but through practice can choose how it is to be realized."

01-17-2002, 05:00 PM	#9 (permalink)
YeLLa-TiGeR Registered User Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Boston Posts: 1,148	I prefer Muay Thai with Wrestling myself. More emphisis on boxing when facing a wrestler. __________________ "Nemo me impune lacssit"

01-17-2002, 05:27 PM	#10 (permalink)
Zeke Novice Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 57	2SN4f8 Tracy, you asked what a martail artist of Ray Lewis' size would have to fear. Ray Lewis might be the ultimate take down artist. With his speed, strength, and aggressiveness, if he ran at someone, tackled the person, lifting him and slamming him backward, the fight and the person's life both might end on an asphalt lot. Ray is used to taking on large strong people, often multiple opponents on the field. He often fights through two blocks. This would not be theory for him. Another point is that the martial artist might be as big as Ray, but he would not be in Ray's league athletically. If he was a great athlete, he would be making money athletically, not teaching karate in a strip mall. I'm not trying to be rude, just practical.

01-17-2002, 05:58 PM	#11 (permalink)
TracyKarate Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 193	You are being rude by the simple tone of your message, but I will still offer my reply. Yes, Ray lewis is very athletic. But if that was what decided the outcome of an altercation, we would all be playing football and not trainng martial arts. Ray Lewis, padded literally head to toe, tackles people who are trying to run away from him while carrying an object they absolutely cannot drop. There is no connection here to a streetfight. Are you trying to say that someone can beat a trained martial artist due to the simple fact that they are very athletic? I can't say that I would agree. __________________ "The mind does not choose the situation, but through practice can choose how it is to be realized."

01-17-2002, 06:02 PM	#12 (permalink)
TracyKarate Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 193	What will Ray Lewis do when his tackle is met with a kick to the groin? or a thumb to the eye? He would probably plead for the fight to stop--or take a "time out". This is pain he is certainly unaccustomed to, wouldn't you say? __________________ "The mind does not choose the situation, but through practice can choose how it is to be realized."

01-17-2002, 06:20 PM	#13 (permalink)
soho Novice Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 83	Wow I didn't realize there were still people out there that talked this "sport Vs Real Life" stuff. I thought most of us were in agreement that if you want to be able to fight standing up, you have to box. People that don't box don't know how to fight on their feet. Just like people that don't do something like BJJ, don't know how to fight on the ground. People who don't put the games together "Train Vale Tudo" probably should if they want to be good all around. If by saying you don't want to be constrained by rules you mean you spar Vale Tudo then that's great. However if you’re just having guys put you in headlocks, and come at you Aikido style two at a time. But you don't spar because "it's not realistic enough." Well that's probably bad. Generally a good boxer (better than you) will hit you like your standing still, and you won't be able to hit him much. A Black belt in BJJ will treat you like your nothing on the ground. And if you've never done BJJ or wrestled before a purple will have a pretty easy time with you as well. A good wrestler will take you down no problem. And personally I think I would rather fight any of them than a professional football player in their prime. Just give a pro line backer a 5 day crash course in Boxing BJJ and wrestling and he would be one tough son a ...

01-17-2002, 06:31 PM	#14 (permalink)
Zeke Novice Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 57	2SN4f8 No Tracy, I would say that Ray Lewis is used to a lot of pain. If a simple kick to the groin or a finger in the eye is the secret to winning, why train anything? Anybody can do that. The real secret is that it is extremely difficult to kick a person in the groin or to stick a finger in someone's eye. Most tough, athletic people naturally defend those areas. In addition, I have seen people get kicked in the groin and continue as if nothing happened. I didn't say that football was the secret to being athletic, but athletic people tend to go toward Football, Basketball, Boxing, etc., the sports where the big money can be made. I doubt that one will find athletes of that caliber teaching Karate or TKD in a strip mall. There may be the exception that proves the rule, but in general the instructors are not that type of athlete. In my opinion, the average person will never be able to defeat a Ray Lewis in a fight. Ray Lewis simply has physical advantages(speed, strength, aggressiveness) that most people would never be able to overcome. You probably will not agree with that, most people in Karate type martial arts don't. I probably won't change your mind, and I doubt you will change mine.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes	Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode	Rate This Thread:

01-17-2002, 06:34 PM	#15 (permalink)
soho Novice Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 83	Someone who doesn't spar doesn't have the timing to kick some in the groin or get them in the eyes, because when the other guys trying to do the same thing to you it changes things a bit. Man I guess everything old is new again. I haven't heard anyone use this line in a while. "All I have to do is kick him in the groin, thumb his eyes and that’s it...no problem" I wish you luck.