Flexibility in BJJ

[Roy Gaflaer]

How important do you think flexiblity is too jiu jitsu. I think it is very important. Especially when it comes to guard recovery, and pulling of submissions ex. triangles, armbars. What do you think are some goodways to improve flexibility. Do you think lifting weights hiders your flexiblilty. I noticed that some of the young boys I train between 13 and 15, who are really skinny have incredible flexiblity. They can twist and bend in all sorts of crazy positions and can you can pin their knees behind their ears. Also when you try to apply knee bars and arm bars you have to extend really far or they don't tap. As an adult I don't have this type of flexibility. What are some good ways to improve flexiblity. I'm pretty muscular, so I may be naturally unflexible.

[Halloween Jack]

As far as submissions go, I don't care how flexible you are, once someone traps you in a joint lock, you're going to tap or it's going to break.

However, after spending an hour or two in sparring sessions and exchanging submission holds, a flexible person can go home, go to bed, and wake up the next morning feeling fine, whereas a less flexible person might find himself feeling soreness in his muscles, tendons, etc.

Flexibility is also important for limberness-being able to move suddenly and unexpectedly. If you're inflexible and a situation calls for you to, say, turn on your heels or spring upward suddenly, you might a muscle or tendon in the process.

"Weight training makes you stiff!" is largely a myth. Hey, that sorta rhymes! Seriously, if you don't warm up and cool down with stretching before and after you lift weights, you might develop muscle tissue that's inflexible. Some of the guys you see on the covers of bodybuilding magazines with muscles bulging on top of other muscles who look like they were sculpted from plastic...yeah, I imagine they're pretty inflexible. If you want more info, go to www.geoffthompson.com, go to the books section, and read the excerpt from "Weight Training for the Martial Arts."

[Smokey_D]

I believe flexibility is 90% nature and 10% nurture, meaning that if you aren't born flexible you never will be really flexible. I'm a prime example of this. I have limitations in my hips (born without hip sockets) and my hamstrings are tight because of shorter than usual ligaments. I stretch before and after working out only to maintain my current flexilibity and help with muscle recovery/injury prevention.

I have never and will never be able to do splits and it does affect my BJJ. However, I have adapted to my limitations and adjust my moves accordingly.

I absolutely hate when instructors demand that you stretch in order to increase your flexibility to a split or some other position. Some people are just natural inflexible (my sister has the same flexibility issues that I do) while others are incredibly flexible (my wife never stretches or even works out but she can drop to a couple of inches of a full split absolutely cold).

Ultimately, you can improve your flexibility only marginally but stretching is absolutely essential in preventing injuries and muscle recovery.

Dan

[MercuryTurrent]

dead wrong smokey; i used to be very unflexible, and was built more like a line-backer then a martial artist. but, with tenacity, a good routine, and seasoning my muscles (with running), i changed all that. i can do full splits now, and even suck my own nuts (not like i do though ^_~). of course, if you were born with something way too wrong with you (missing two legs), then you prolly cant stretch certain ways... but then again, why would you be in the MA's then?

[Smokey_D]

MercuryTurrent, I think you exactly exemplify my argument. You are naturally flexible, meaning that you do not have ligaments, tendons or bone obstructing your range of motion. Muscle is stretchable and because of that you have been able to reach a point where you can suck your own nuts (yes, I'm jealous!).

If you were like me and had impedements to your range (short tendons/ligaments and bone blockage) than you would not be able to orally stimulate yourself.

My percentages may not be 100% accurate, but I stand on my argument that you can only improve your stretching up to a point because of physical limitations, not because you do not stretch long enough or hard enough.

In your case, you clearly are naturally flexible, meaning that you had fewer physical impedements, but it seems that since you never really stretched that you "tightened up"; however, you have or will reach a point where you can not make any significant improvements. Unless you have crazy genes, you will never be as flexible as Mongolian acrobats.

You simply must have the genes to be flexible. You may need to work on stretching to reach your maximum potential, but you will reach a point where no more significant improvements will happen.

Dan

[Szczepankiewicz]

Smokey_D
Do you have any research or external information to support your claims? I have never heard of this theory before.


Thanks,

SZ

[Smokey_D]

Szczepankiewicz, I'm not sure what statistics you are talking of. If it is the 90/10 nature vs. nurture, then I don't have anything to back up my claims. I'm going by anecdotal evidence. Like I said in my second posting, those numbers are probably off, but I stand by what I say that some/most people have some sort of limitation for flexibility, i.e. you can not progress beyond a certain point no matter how hard you stretch.

If the statistics you are wondering about concern how ligaments, tendons and bone impede flexibility, I would point you to any stretching book, video or sports medicine information source to back up this statement.

Bottom line, some people are just more flexible than others, just like some people are stronger or faster. You can become stronger or faster up to a point, but there will be a plateau that you will not be able to conquer dispite your best efforts in training.

Nature is tough to overcome.

Dan

[Szczepankiewicz]

Yeah that makes sense when you compare it to strength, speed etc....

Thanks,

SZ

[Phorce]

Originally Posted by Smokey_D

You can become stronger or faster up to a point, but there will be a plateau that you will not be able to conquer dispite your best efforts in training.

Nature is tough to overcome.

Dan

I disagree.....anyone can become Mr. Universe with the right dedication, diet, motivation, trianing, advise etc...and the same with speed...10% nature, 5% inspiration, and 85% perspiration....anything is possible...the reason why you cant imcrease your flexibility...your not stretchin often/hard enough/for long enough....ok, so youve got a disadvantage...so try harder/wiser ways....

[cakegirl]

Royce has a new book out on fitness for martial artists, and he has a lot of martial arts-specific stretches in it. It's called Superfit. (Scroll down the page till you get to the announcement about it.)

Cakegirl

[grubbogoppoly]

"MercuryTurrent, I think you exactly exemplify my argument. You are naturally flexible, meaning that you do not have ligaments, tendons or bone obstructing your range of motion. Muscle is stretchable and because of that you have been able to reach a point where you can suck your own nuts (yes, I'm jealous!)."


Are you saying he doesn't have ligaments or tendons ?

[squidd]

Originally Posted by Smokey_D

Bottom line, some people are just more flexible than others, just like some people are stronger or faster. You can become stronger or faster up to a point, but there will be a plateau that you will not be able to conquer dispite your best efforts in training.

Nature is tough to overcome.

Dan

hi dan,

what you're saying makes sense but i can't help but hopp[e that you are wrong since we're in the same boat.

the reason i took up bjj was because i was so amazed at the triangle choke and wanted to do it... only to find out that i do not have the flexibility to execute it. and from all indications, no amount of stretching is gonna get me there.