Interesting Perspective.

[Szczepankiewicz]

"If you train for competition and that's what you're about, that's fine. But don't immediately make the assumption that you are training for Self-defense. That can be a fatal mistake.

If you are not willing to go all the way with someone in the street, and they are ready to do whatever is necessary to impose their Will on you...they will usually succeed at it."


-- Don Rearic

www.drearic.com

[soho]

Personally I don't really care about street application that much. I'm not into streetfighting, and don't plan to get into that many fights in the future. That being said I am confident about fighting if I have to. In the skirmishes I have had with people since I've be training I've alway dominated the other person pretty easily. Its alway been the same situation. Preson is in your face usualy drunk. Your clinched before you know it, and when your dealing with someone who has never trained the clinch it's easy as pie to put them on the ground or control them standing, and in terms of my training I don't consider myself that advanced in the clinch.

On the other hand someone I used to train with was bouncing at a local club about two months ago when a brawl broke out. He was stabbed and killed. So no matter how well prepared you are sometimes it's not enough.

By the way I think training for comp is way better prep for a fight than 99.999% of the supposed "Self-Defence" training out there, Because you are really training hard against someone who is resisting.

[Szczepankiewicz]

I agree, it's always good to train full contact. Scenario based training can help, but as you say, there are too many variables to prepare for. If you have sound principles and experience in applying them in a full contact situation, you should be ok for the majority of incidents.

[Qkfx]

The reason I disagree with some sports training is that it can build bad habits. In sport you train how to escape side mount and north/south etc...As a result alot of guys don't mind being put in this position in the first place. But in an nhb situation allowing yourself into this position will be a huge mistake. Of course knowing how to get out of them is a necessity but allowing them in the first place is what I would take issue with.

[Szczepankiewicz]

I have often heard pure strikers state "I just wouldn't let them grapple with me."

If you had that much control over the situation then, yes, I would agree with you. Sports training can build bad habits, but that is up to the practicioner and the coach to realize that sport is sport, and not self defense. Like the original quote says... and like you said in your post "some" sports training.


The same can be said for "some" if not "most" self defense training.

SZ

[soho]

I have to say when I get stuck in Crossside or North South trust me It's not because "I let the guy put me there" Those positions can really suck if the guy is good at holding you down. I have never met someone who "didn't mind being put in those positions" unless of course they want to train their escapes." The fact is there are many people who are better than me and can put me where they want.

[Qkfx]

I agree with you guys in that if you're in that spot it's not because you wanted it. However my thought (which I didn't explain well) is the focus of your training. I have known guys who feel they can reverse or escape more readily when in cross side so they allow that position.

[Szczepankiewicz]

Yeah, I'd rather be in position X than position Y, so I'll readily give up position X to avoid position Y? I understand better now.

It was the butterfly ballot that confused me. Thank's for the clarification.


I am fully aware that the sport training I do is sport, and the self defense is self-defense. The last thing I want to do is put someone in a juji gatame if I'm in a fight.

Then again, I won't go toe to toe or wrassle with anyone in a real fight either. I'll scratch the biotches eyes out!

SZ

[soho]

Scratching guy’s eyes out is all well and good. But if when your trying to do that you forget about your jits and wrestling. You might suddenly find yourself mounted getting an ass kicking.

Example: there are some people who I could not control or take down or anything when we left out the hitting. But when we went Vale tudo they would forget all their clinch and jitz knowledge and just go nuts. I would then take them down like it was their first class, and mount and pound. Hitting and scratching on the ground changes the game, but it's still the same game in most ways.

As to the escaping more readily when in this position or that, It still holds true in a fight. In a real fight I would still rather have a guy mounted on me that have me broken down with his hooks in. I'd rather have him cross side than mount. I'd rather have him half guard that cross side. I'd rather have him full guard than half guard. I'd rather be on top cross side than have him in my guard. I'd rather be on his back with him broken down than cross side or mount. And I'd rather be at home than be in a fight at all.

Basically I don't understand the point you’re making. If you’re giving up the lesser of two evil positions in a street fight it's because the guy is beating your ass. That’s why we train boxing, wrestling, and jits. So if we are in a fight hopefully we won't be getting a beat down.

[Szczepankiewicz]

I was.....kidding.