The Ultimate in Martial Arts

ramaaiki · 02-24-2002, 12:48 PM

I am writing an article on the Gracie family, and currently I am at the part where Sakuraba enters the picture. Can anyone explain to me what his fighting style is and why it is so successful against the Gracies? Also is Vanderlei Silva a part of the Gracie camp and if so did they consider his victory over Sakuraba as redemption?

kid lock · 02-24-2002, 04:36 PM

What I know about Sakuraba is that he is a pro wrestler in Japan and that he trains at the Tokada Dojo. To me he is just a "natural" who doesn't rely on just one source of fighting( If you watch Pride 8 you will know exactly what I am talking about). And NO, Vanderlei is not representing the Gracies, he is from the ChuteBoxe Academy.

kid lock · 02-24-2002, 04:39 PM

Also if you go to: teamgracie.com, you can get a brief history on the Gracie's.

JaredExtreme · 02-24-2002, 09:02 PM

Well, Sakuraba's fighting style has been debated on this board often. Some people claim he uses ninjitsu, but he really is a crosstrainer. I think you could probably use the term submission fighting (even though he has good strikes as well).

There are lots of reasons why Sak was successful against the Gracies. But it pretty much came down to one thing: He refused to play their game. Sak didn't just dive into the guard where the Gracies excel. He kicked them while they were down, tried to jump ON them, and did cartwheel guard passes. Even when he did fall into the guard, he didn't make mistakes. He used short bursts of strikes that wouldn't tire himself out and kept his base low so he couldn't be swept.

These are just the basics strategems. BTW, what is the article for?

drixx2 · 02-25-2002, 07:41 AM

one thing that i think makes Sak so hard for the gracies is his amazing defence when he gives his back to them. He actually gives them his back, then proceeds to be agressive. A great example of this is in the utimite Japan UFC.

crazyjoe380 · 02-25-2002, 10:31 AM

SAKURABA is one of my favorite fighters...

Sakuraba vs royler

VS SILVA

vs R. Gracie

RicksonFan18 · 03-12-2002, 01:24 AM

All I know is that Rickson Gracie would anhialate Sakuraba

Szczepankiewicz · 03-12-2002, 09:31 AM

Shoulda woulda and coulda, but didn't.

kid lock · 03-12-2002, 01:03 PM

I really think that Sakuraba can beat Frank Shamrock! He is the best fighter in his weight class and makes fighters freestyle fight.(excluding Vanderlei) If Sakuraba was to train with the ChuteBoxe team he would totally unstoppable, even against Vanderlei!

Halloween Jack · 03-12-2002, 01:28 PM

I keep seeing fight records for Rickson Gracie that include hundreds of fights, but Sherdog.Com only lists 9 fights for him. What about these others? Were they all undocumented ones from the '70s and '80s? And if so, where's the proof that they ever took place at all?

As far as his record at Sherdog.Com is concerned, the only competent fighter he's ever defeated is Funaki.

Halloween Jack · 03-12-2002, 02:45 PM

And Yuki Nakai, who was beaten bloody and blind in at least one eye when Rickson fought him.

RicksonFan18 · 03-12-2002, 03:15 PM

all of the fights come from not just no holds barred but fom jiu jitsu, sambo, submission wrestling, people challenging him at his school(vice a versa) and street fights.

bottom line is that rickson has never been knocked out or submited in more than 400 fights

Groin Grab · 03-12-2002, 04:43 PM

Hickson Gracie is just like Roy Jones JR,

Claims to be the best but has never fought any one good to prove it.

Halloween Jack · 03-12-2002, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RicksonFan18
all of the fights come from not just no holds barred but fom jiu jitsu, sambo, submission wrestling, people challenging him at his school(vice a versa) and street fights.

bottom line is that rickson has never been knocked out or submited in more than 400 fights

Ah, yes. The ones he can't prove even took place. Rickson was claiming a 401-0 record in 1995. He would have been about 37 at the time. That means almost 11 fights a year...since he was born. If we assume he didn't start fighting until he was 15, when he began to teach the art, then that's more than 18 fights a year.
Hasn't Helio himself scoffed at his proclaimed record? If Rickson doesn't want to accept challenges from other fighters, fine. Forty-four is pretty old to be in NHB competition, and even if he did get a victory over a prominent NHB fighter, the Rickson haters would still find a way to rationalize it as a fluke or start putting down the challenger they were upholding as a champion five minutes ago and demand he fight someone else. But unless you're going to compete with the best, don't claim to be the best.

If Kazushi Sakuraba came to America and opened the doors of his gym to anyone who wanted to walk in off the street and take on "the little Japanese guy," he'd probably amass 400 wins pretty damn quick.

Groin Grab · 03-13-2002, 03:14 AM

If Hickson were to fight any of the following fighters win lose or draw I'd give him some respect.

Sakuraba

Mario Sperry

Murlio Bustantame

Frank Shamrock

Mark Curr

Tito Ortiz

Dan Henderson

Or any other fighter that would make for a worthy opponent.

I give Royler Gracie more respect than Hickson because at least he's competed and fought some of the better fighters out there. Hickson is a myth and he doesn't want to ruin the mystic that surrounds him and so he will never fight any one good.

02-24-2002, 12:48 PM	#1 (permalink)
ramaaiki Novice Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Virginia Posts: 5 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Sakuraba & The Gracies I am writing an article on the Gracie family, and currently I am at the part where Sakuraba enters the picture. Can anyone explain to me what his fighting style is and why it is so successful against the Gracies? Also is Vanderlei Silva a part of the Gracie camp and if so did they consider his victory over Sakuraba as redemption? __________________ RamaRevelations

02-24-2002, 09:02 PM	#4 (permalink)
JaredExtreme Registered User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,115 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Well, Sakuraba's fighting style has been debated on this board often. Some people claim he uses ninjitsu, but he really is a crosstrainer. I think you could probably use the term submission fighting (even though he has good strikes as well). There are lots of reasons why Sak was successful against the Gracies. But it pretty much came down to one thing: He refused to play their game. Sak didn't just dive into the guard where the Gracies excel. He kicked them while they were down, tried to jump ON them, and did cartwheel guard passes. Even when he did fall into the guard, he didn't make mistakes. He used short bursts of strikes that wouldn't tire himself out and kept his base low so he couldn't be swept. These are just the basics strategems. BTW, what is the article for? __________________ "I don't fight in the street, there's no mats out there." - JaredExtreme

02-25-2002, 07:41 AM	#5 (permalink)
drixx2 Novice Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 47 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	one thing that i think makes Sak so hard for the gracies is his amazing defence when he gives his back to them. He actually gives them his back, then proceeds to be agressive. A great example of this is in the utimite Japan UFC. Attached Images __________________ jason l

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02-24-2002, 04:36 PM	#2 (permalink)
kid lock Novice Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 168 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	What I know about Sakuraba is that he is a pro wrestler in Japan and that he trains at the Tokada Dojo. To me he is just a "natural" who doesn't rely on just one source of fighting( If you watch Pride 8 you will know exactly what I am talking about). And NO, Vanderlei is not representing the Gracies, he is from the ChuteBoxe Academy.

02-24-2002, 04:39 PM	#3 (permalink)
kid lock Novice Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 168 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Also if you go to: teamgracie.com, you can get a brief history on the Gracie's.

02-25-2002, 10:31 AM	#6 (permalink)
crazyjoe380 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,369 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	SAKURABA is one of my favorite fighters... Sakuraba vs royler VS SILVA vs R. Gracie

03-12-2002, 01:24 AM	#7 (permalink)
RicksonFan18 Novice Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 7 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	All I know is that Rickson Gracie would anhialate Sakuraba

03-12-2002, 09:31 AM	#8 (permalink)
Szczepankiewicz Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Meridian, ID, USA Posts: 4,109 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Shoulda woulda and coulda, but didn't.

03-12-2002, 01:03 PM	#9 (permalink)
kid lock Novice Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 168 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I really think that Sakuraba can beat Frank Shamrock! He is the best fighter in his weight class and makes fighters freestyle fight.(excluding Vanderlei) If Sakuraba was to train with the ChuteBoxe team he would totally unstoppable, even against Vanderlei!

03-12-2002, 01:28 PM	#10 (permalink)
Halloween Jack Novice Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 49 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I keep seeing fight records for Rickson Gracie that include hundreds of fights, but Sherdog.Com only lists 9 fights for him. What about these others? Were they all undocumented ones from the '70s and '80s? And if so, where's the proof that they ever took place at all? As far as his record at Sherdog.Com is concerned, the only competent fighter he's ever defeated is Funaki.

03-12-2002, 02:45 PM	#11 (permalink)
Halloween Jack Novice Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 49 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	And Yuki Nakai, who was beaten bloody and blind in at least one eye when Rickson fought him.

03-12-2002, 03:15 PM	#12 (permalink)
RicksonFan18 Novice Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 7 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	all of the fights come from not just no holds barred but fom jiu jitsu, sambo, submission wrestling, people challenging him at his school(vice a versa) and street fights. bottom line is that rickson has never been knocked out or submited in more than 400 fights

03-12-2002, 04:43 PM	#13 (permalink)
Groin Grab Registered User Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 104 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hickson Gracie is just like Roy Jones JR, Claims to be the best but has never fought any one good to prove it.

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03-13-2002, 03:14 AM	#15 (permalink)
Groin Grab Registered User Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 104 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	If Hickson were to fight any of the following fighters win lose or draw I'd give him some respect. Sakuraba Mario Sperry Murlio Bustantame Frank Shamrock Mark Curr Tito Ortiz Dan Henderson Or any other fighter that would make for a worthy opponent. I give Royler Gracie more respect than Hickson because at least he's competed and fought some of the better fighters out there. Hickson is a myth and he doesn't want to ruin the mystic that surrounds him and so he will never fight any one good.