The Ultimate in Martial Arts

andyf · 06-09-2002, 02:32 PM

Hi there. I have the opportunity to start training in either Shotokan Karate or Ju Jitsu, and wondered if any of you guys or girls out there could enlighten me a little as to which you think would be the best form of self defence in the real world.
Also, and I know this is a bit of a no go area!!! With dedication and commitment to the dojo how long do you think it would take to advance from beginner to black belt.
Thanks

SweepEm · 06-09-2002, 08:28 PM

If you're a Dufus that can't tie his own shoe laces, you can't chew bubble gum and walk, you ain't going to ever get a black belt in any martial art.

If you are talented and have good skills, it still may not be predictable if and when you might be awarded a black belt.

If you are talking about Brazilian instead of Japanese Jiu Jitsu, you may never get that black.

it comes down to how long and how hard you train.

boom916718 · 06-09-2002, 08:32 PM

I studied Shotokan for several years and received my shodan from Nishiyama Sensei. I enjoyed learning Shotokan and will say that it gave me a good base from which to study other martial arts. I learned the importance of technique and body mechanics.
I trained hard and smart and got my black belt in 3 years.

In regards to your question, I would have to say that if you are looking for real world self-defense I would look towards Jeet Kune Do(i.e. Paul Vunak), Tony Blauer's self-defense system, or Vee Arnis Jitsu. Based on what I've seen, these systems seem pretty realistic for the street.

What type of jiujitsu could you learn? If I had to do it all over again, I would trade in years of Shotokan for a single year of Brazilian Jiujitsu. Be sure not to confuse martial arts with real street self-defense. I would check out Paul Vunak's video Street Safe to begin with.

By the way, I will start learning BJJ regularly pretty soon here.

Good luck in your search.

Karlinhos · 06-09-2002, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by andyf
Hi there. I have the opportunity to start training in either Shotokan Karate or Ju Jitsu, and wondered if any of you guys or girls out there could enlighten me a little as to which you think would be the best form of self defence in the real world.
Also, and I know this is a bit of a no go area!!! With dedication and commitment to the dojo how long do you think it would take to advance from beginner to black belt.
Thanks

this is a BRAZILIAN JIU-JITSU forum... what kind of answer do you expect?

first post + above original question = TOOL

mushinmaster · 06-10-2002, 12:31 AM

Karlinhos - EZ there big fella - MMA&BJJ

I'd go with the best instructor if I were you. I haven't heard too many good things about shotokan, but most karate schools out there are McDojos anyways. Jap. Jui-Jutsu you have to be carefull too - there's a lot of the same crap.

JaredExtreme · 06-10-2002, 01:54 AM

Yeah, unfortunatly I have watched a shotokan class, and it was very dissapointing. The class resembled balet more than martial arts.

boom916718 · 06-10-2002, 01:56 AM

I've seen some crappy shotokan and some good shotokan. Mushin was correct about lots of McDojos out there. If you do decide to do shotokan I would make sure it is part of ITKF(International Traditional Karate Federation) or AAKF(American Amateur Karate Federation).

The important thing is that you find a good instructor and if you enjoy what you are doing then..hey!....bonus for you!

In regards to Karlinhos, don't mind him...he is young and has some emotional issues.

JaredExtreme · 06-10-2002, 04:58 AM

Not to mention he's a sponge !

rooke · 06-10-2002, 01:10 PM

People like to give karate a bad rap, but I know some Shotokan schools that spar hard and teach good pressure point theory to boot. They've made excellent fighters.

On the flip side, if Brazillian Jujitsu is your only art, do you feel like grappling in a crowded bar, if you end up in an altercation?

Sit in on a few classes at the school's your interested in, and see if that's what you want to do. See if those look like realistic situations. Would this be something against 1 opponent? Multiple opponents? Crowded space? Open area?

Then, search the internet for mention of your instructor. That will give you more insight into their credentials.

Rooke

boom916718 · 06-10-2002, 01:34 PM

People like to give karate a bad rap, but I know some Shotokan schools that spar hard and teach good pressure point theory to boot. They've made excellent fighters.

On the flip side, if Brazillian Jujitsu is your only art, do you feel like grappling in a crowded bar, if you end up in an altercation?

Sit in on a few classes at the school's your interested in, and see if that's what you want to do. See if those look like realistic situations. Would this be something against 1 opponent? Multiple opponents? Crowded space? Open area?

Then, search the internet for mention of your instructor. That will give you more insight into their credentials.

Well said Rooke!

JaredExtreme · 06-10-2002, 04:40 PM

Yeah Rooke, I would much rather do katas and slide-stepping in a bar fight than grappling.

mushinmaster · 06-10-2002, 05:03 PM

What type of karate are you talking about? Nothing like what I do...

If you've never heard of the two-bar stool punch you probably haven't seen good karate.

boom916718 · 06-10-2002, 06:22 PM

Or how about the 8-ball reverse punch or the Pool Stick Groin Kick? Both deadly I tell ya!

Karlinhos · 06-11-2002, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mushinmaster
Karlinhos - EZ there big fella - MMA&BJJ

oh yeah.

Karlinhos · 06-11-2002, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by boom916718
In regards to Karlinhos, don't mind him...he is young and has some emotional issues.

no, no... mind me AND fear me!

06-09-2002, 02:32 PM	#1 (permalink)
andyf Novice Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Karate or ju jitsu Hi there. I have the opportunity to start training in either Shotokan Karate or Ju Jitsu, and wondered if any of you guys or girls out there could enlighten me a little as to which you think would be the best form of self defence in the real world. Also, and I know this is a bit of a no go area!!! With dedication and commitment to the dojo how long do you think it would take to advance from beginner to black belt. Thanks

06-09-2002, 08:32 PM	#3 (permalink)
boom916718 Novice Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 15 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Which to choose? I studied Shotokan for several years and received my shodan from Nishiyama Sensei. I enjoyed learning Shotokan and will say that it gave me a good base from which to study other martial arts. I learned the importance of technique and body mechanics. I trained hard and smart and got my black belt in 3 years. In regards to your question, I would have to say that if you are looking for real world self-defense I would look towards Jeet Kune Do(i.e. Paul Vunak), Tony Blauer's self-defense system, or Vee Arnis Jitsu. Based on what I've seen, these systems seem pretty realistic for the street. What type of jiujitsu could you learn? If I had to do it all over again, I would trade in years of Shotokan for a single year of Brazilian Jiujitsu. Be sure not to confuse martial arts with real street self-defense. I would check out Paul Vunak's video Street Safe to begin with. By the way, I will start learning BJJ regularly pretty soon here. Good luck in your search.

06-10-2002, 12:31 AM	#5 (permalink)
mushinmaster Novice Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: SGF, NY Posts: 402 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Karlinhos - EZ there big fella - MMA&BJJ I'd go with the best instructor if I were you. I haven't heard too many good things about shotokan, but most karate schools out there are McDojos anyways. Jap. Jui-Jutsu you have to be carefull too - there's a lot of the same crap. __________________ Alex Bedard http://www.geocities.com/mushinmaster Last edited by mushinmaster; 06-10-2002 at 12:33 AM.

06-10-2002, 01:54 AM	#6 (permalink)
JaredExtreme Registered User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,115 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Yeah, unfortunatly I have watched a shotokan class, and it was very dissapointing. The class resembled balet more than martial arts. __________________ "I don't fight in the street, there's no mats out there." - JaredExtreme

06-10-2002, 01:56 AM	#7 (permalink)
boom916718 Novice Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 15 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Which one to chose? I've seen some crappy shotokan and some good shotokan. Mushin was correct about lots of McDojos out there. If you do decide to do shotokan I would make sure it is part of ITKF(International Traditional Karate Federation) or AAKF(American Amateur Karate Federation). The important thing is that you find a good instructor and if you enjoy what you are doing then..hey!....bonus for you! In regards to Karlinhos, don't mind him...he is young and has some emotional issues.

06-09-2002, 08:28 PM	#2 (permalink)
SweepEm Master Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,845 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	If you're a Dufus that can't tie his own shoe laces, you can't chew bubble gum and walk, you ain't going to ever get a black belt in any martial art. If you are talented and have good skills, it still may not be predictable if and when you might be awarded a black belt. If you are talking about Brazilian instead of Japanese Jiu Jitsu, you may never get that black. it comes down to how long and how hard you train.

06-10-2002, 04:58 AM	#8 (permalink)
JaredExtreme Registered User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,115 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Not to mention he's a sponge ! __________________ "I don't fight in the street, there's no mats out there." - JaredExtreme

06-10-2002, 01:10 PM	#9 (permalink)
rooke Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 26 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Depends... People like to give karate a bad rap, but I know some Shotokan schools that spar hard and teach good pressure point theory to boot. They've made excellent fighters. On the flip side, if Brazillian Jujitsu is your only art, do you feel like grappling in a crowded bar, if you end up in an altercation? Sit in on a few classes at the school's your interested in, and see if that's what you want to do. See if those look like realistic situations. Would this be something against 1 opponent? Multiple opponents? Crowded space? Open area? Then, search the internet for mention of your instructor. That will give you more insight into their credentials. Rooke

06-10-2002, 01:34 PM	#10 (permalink)
boom916718 Novice Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 15 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Which one? People like to give karate a bad rap, but I know some Shotokan schools that spar hard and teach good pressure point theory to boot. They've made excellent fighters. On the flip side, if Brazillian Jujitsu is your only art, do you feel like grappling in a crowded bar, if you end up in an altercation? Sit in on a few classes at the school's your interested in, and see if that's what you want to do. See if those look like realistic situations. Would this be something against 1 opponent? Multiple opponents? Crowded space? Open area? Then, search the internet for mention of your instructor. That will give you more insight into their credentials. Well said Rooke!

06-10-2002, 04:40 PM	#11 (permalink)
JaredExtreme Registered User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,115 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Yeah Rooke, I would much rather do katas and slide-stepping in a bar fight than grappling. __________________ "I don't fight in the street, there's no mats out there." - JaredExtreme

06-10-2002, 05:03 PM	#12 (permalink)
mushinmaster Novice Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: SGF, NY Posts: 402 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Kata's and Slidestep What type of karate are you talking about? Nothing like what I do... If you've never heard of the two-bar stool punch you probably haven't seen good karate. __________________ Alex Bedard http://www.geocities.com/mushinmaster

06-10-2002, 06:22 PM	#13 (permalink)
boom916718 Novice Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 15 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Or how about the 8-ball reverse punch or the Pool Stick Groin Kick? Both deadly I tell ya!

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