judo

[kluten]

how is judo working in a streetfight?
is just for sport or is it usefull in other situations as well.

i think my search soon will be over, i found some styles that i will try out. that will be bjj, or grapplin or muy thai.

Judo needs to be adapted to work safely in a street fight. To cut things short, thats exactly what BJJ did. Go with the BJJ if available.

[Szczepankiewicz]

but once again I agree with the TWIT! Judo is all about sport. The ground work is minimally emphasized and there are no strikes involved. It would have to be heavily modified (see also BJJ or something similar) or used by someone who is very good to be street effective.

I have trained with many Judoka whom I would not want to scrap with, but they have been training hard for many years. PLUS most of them branch off into striking and other grappling arts.

The strongest benefits are: It's always full contact, and it's an awesome workout.

So, to sum up, if you're looking for sport application, Judo is great. As for self-defense, you're better off looking into a FULL contact art with focus on self-preservation.

SZ

[kluten]

ok so what would you recomend.

bjj or jkd or kickboxing.

i found kickboxing hard to use outside the ring. sire some of the striking techniqes are good, but to defend my self i'll think i'll have to do mare than striking.

the negative thing about bjj is that there is only 2 schools here in norway. BUt anyway i am planning to move near one of them to get the training i want.

[Ryu (JKD?)]

The best judokas usually are also skilled in BJJ, Striking arts, etc.
I've used newaza before in self-defense situations, but nothing spectacular. Body lock throws, mount, ude garami, etc.
BJJ I would argue... IS a modified version of judo newaza.
But I agree that in order to have a good self-defense system you need realistic grappling, striking, and sparring (and weapon sparring) GOOD judo schools focus a lot on groundfighting. However, sometimes it's hard to find. If you can find one that has a bent for heavy competition, they usually will be pretty good on the ground. But BJJ really emphasizes it more.

Ryu

"It saddens me to say...
but once again I agree with the TWIT!"

Keep learning from me, Schizo, keep learning from me........

[Shimora]

Judo is a lethal art to use on the street. I once saw a Judoka thow an attacker onto a bike rack (An upright structure in a public street for push bike riders to park their bikes) and he broke his spine. That attacker is in a wheelchair today.

I feel that most of the true Martial Arts ie: the Japanese ones are more effective on the street than the recently developed sporting styles like BJJ and Olympic Tae Kwon Do.

"I feel that most of the true Martial Arts ie: the Japanese ones are more effective on the street than the recently developed sporting styles like BJJ and Olympic Tae Kwon Do."

I find the above statement very odd. Whilst I don't promote Taekwondo as a self defence art I must say that it is the Japanese themselves who turned fighting arts into sports. Jiu Jitsu became Judo, full to the brim with safety rules. Okinawan Karate Jitsu (a lethal "finger in the eyes and stamp kick the knee" type art became Karate Do where arms and legs are waved about ineffectively. And they developed Aikido (which another thread discusses).

The effect of BJJ on real, pressure tested Martial Arts has been immeasurabe. The only people that can beat a top level BJJ practitioner is a person who has trained under BJJ themselves.

[Szczepankiewicz]

Garbage Can-Lid-Do is also a street lethal martial art. I once saw a guy who was being bullied grab the lid off of a steel can and swing it in a large arc. He hit the other guy in the head, and now that guy (the one who got hit) spends all day posting on internet forums from Idaho.....

The only people that can beat a top level BJJ practitioner is a person who has trained under BJJ themselves.

WHAT!? Do you mean in the ring, under controlled circumstances? Or in one of the famous challenge matches?

I have witnessed Bangin-Head Do on numerous occasions. Walls and floors come in handy for this ancient Martia Art.

Works a treat

Re BJJ I mean in the ring, under controlled conditons. For challenge matches I would recommend BHD.

[Shimora]

"The effect of BJJ on real, pressure tested Martial Arts has been immeasurabe."

Exactly so why use it as an example of an effective style?

The Japanese "sport" arts like Judo still teach brutal street defense techniques in the Dojo. These days most BJJ schools focus on grappling contests and therefore teach too much sport technique and too little real fighting technique.

As the Japanese arts are all about breaking bones and maiming and killing they are far more effective on the street. Japanese styles are Battle Ground proven whereas BJJ is Dojo proven.

"The only people that can beat a top level BJJ practitioner is a person who has trained under BJJ themselves"

When did Don Frye do BJJ? How much BJJ did Mo Smith use to KO Conan? Of course you are forgetting about the legendary Japanese Martial Arts expert Sakuraba aka "The Gracie Killer" who publically humiliated the Gracie fighters one by one and smashed the BJJ myth. Yes my friend, when Japanese styles finally met Brazilian styles the results were virtually all in Japans favor. It only makes sense considering that Gracie family were taught Judo by a travelling Japanese Judoka and they changed its name to BJJ and lost some of the better technique.

Once again, very selective with the facts.

""The effect of BJJ on real, pressure tested Martial Arts has been immeasurabe." Exactly so why use it as an example of an effective style?"

One of us is at cross purposes here I think. The first sentence you quote explains the second.

So Judo, with it's myriad of rules (rules that say wrapping your leg around your opponent means youre "not in a hold down", or where you can't apply pressure to his legs, wrists or across the face.......etc.) is is the street system? What rubbish.

Japanese styles are not battle ground proven. They fought battles with Swords, or Bows and Arrows etc. Later they fought wars with guns and planes. They did not use Karate to punch through the arnmour of Samurai! They did not use Jiu Jutsu to take a Samurai Sword off the enemy! All that is nonsense. Look how Karate faired in the early UFCs. It was embarrassing.

I like the way you use a wrestler and a kickboxer (of very brief reign) to back your argument that Japanese systems are the best..........The only reason Mo Smith has made such an impact is because he actually managed to win! And he had been tutored by Ken Shamrock for a year.

Sakuraba is a brilliant fighter. Smashed the BJJ myth? I don't think so. BJJ was kicking everyone's arses until the other absorbed it into their own systems. And the top BJJ fighters are still way up their in the big competitions. Sakurabe is NOT Karate fighter. He is NOT a Judo player, and he is NOT a Karate-ka. So what is your point?

The BJJ "myth"? That made me laugh out loud. I think many people here will be able to see who is using facts for their arguments, as against who is using myths. The martial arts where in a mess before BJJ became well known in the 90s. There was next to no recognition of grappling, and millions walked up and down dojos punching thin air. The only realistic striking methods were in Thai and Kick Boxing, and next to no one was grappling.

Wait, though. Maybe you're right. Maybe No Holds Barred competitions HAVE been dominated by the Japanese experts in Karate, Judo, Aikido and Ninjitsu! BUT I DON'T THINK SO!

Haw haw haw!

[GrdStorm]

Just want to add that Wing Chun is a very good striking/defnse system. The drawback is it takes years to get proficient.

[MinisterofDeath]

uhh no it doesn't. You can be a good wing chun player in like six months.

[HOWARD KIMONOS]

This may not be the streets, but Ohyama (Olympic Judoka) who fought and defeated Renzo Gracie in Pride 21, used 2 judo throws to slam Renzo into the mat, and used some very clever judo escapes against Renzo's take down attacks.

So, Judo does work....just like every other martial art. Use the best from all arts and blend them to fit into your personal type. It's all about cross-training today.