BJJ losing out in the MMA world?

[GrdStorm]

You might all laugh at me but wdf happen at UFC 38?

Elvis Sinosic got his ass handed to him by a *ground and pound* wrestler.

Frank Mir got his ASS handed to him by Ian Freeman who is also sort of Ground and Pound.

Carlos Newton got beat pretty bad by Matt who is definetly ground and pound.

most of the guys that won were strong wrestlers with heavy hands. Is BJJ losing to the *ground and pound*??


I dunno just something to think about, I still love BJJ though!

[Fighter]

Many people think that BJJ is the be all and end all of MMA tounaments. Its not the style its the fighter. Just because some of the BJJ practioners lost does not mean BJJ stinks it just means they need to train harder!

[JaredExtreme]

I hate wrestlers.

[Fighter]

Its true that wrestling does not make for a good show in the UFC, but the fact is its effective. But I do think that striking is more important than ground skills.

Id say maybe a 60:40 ratio.

[Ice Phoenix]

Stupid Wrestlers! JaredExtreme, I'm with ya!

The damn wrestlers only win cause they're steroided up freaks, if you had steroided up BJJ fighters show up they'd probably kick ass too!

One good point is that BJJ is better suited and more effective when 'clothes' are involved, and therefore better for real fight situations.

Greased-up steroidal monkeys will probably always rule the UFC, cause the environment and rules are much better suited to them.

I don't understand why the BJJ fighters in NHB and MMA competition these days don't wear their Gi's???

Royce Gracie wore his and kicked ass so why now do they all go naked and play the wrestler's game? .... And they wonder why they're losing....

[GrdStorm]

Royce only qore the Gi when no one could beat him... He knows hes got no damn muscles so he hides it under his shirt!!!

Wrestlers have a skilled call ground control, they can use their weight effectively to keep a person down. They also do a good job to holding down a person's limbs so that they cant get off any submissions. Thats why some wrestlers are called "Jiu-Jitsu Killers." Their style of fighting can totally neutralize a BJJ guy. Dan Severn went like 20 minutes with Royce and that was when no one knew BJJ.

Oh yea hRoyce got his ass beat by Sakuraba in Pride because (my opinion) he was wearing that stupid Gi. It gave Sakuraba something to hold onto, a MAJOR disadvantage for Royce.

[Ice Phoenix]

As for Royce wearing his Gi, I hardly think that is the reason!

Yes Wrestlers are skilled at being able to use their weight effectively to pin their opponent to the ground and control them, but a skilled BJJ fighter should have a comparable ability, the main difference being that they generally weigh less than the Wrestlers so they have less weight to use, and not only that but because they are more focussed on submissions rather than the 'ground and pound' method of wrestlers, they generally won't want to lie around pinning an opponent but rather slip into a submission, ususally a transitional armbar or legbar.

One good example is how in UFC 2 Royce sacrificed the mount for DeLucia's arm for the vertical armbar.

Here's an idea, put some clothes on that greasy Wrestler and see how fast the BJJ guy wins!

[GrdStorm]

Also BJJ guys rely on leverage but a wrestler uses weight and power, also good NHB wrestlers know now to give up the arm/leg head whatever. They know what BJJ guys are gunning for. oh yeah I see more BJJ guys not wanting to go to the ground against wrestlers.

I don't particularly like Sak, I don't know how he wins he doesn't look all that good. He did whoop Royce for the most part but Royce stuck it out for 90 mins. Also Royce had been out of the game for a while and Sak was a seasoned fighter.

[Fighter]

Ive only seen Royce fight once and that was in UFC 1. He wore his Gi then because he said he wouldn't be able to get a grip on some of the fighters.

As for wrestlers using weight as an advantage. Theres nothig stopping BJJ practitioners on bulking up is there? And there are now different weight divisions in the UFC to stop people having an unfair weight advantage.

Look at UFC 12. I forget his name, He was the fat pitfighter...any way they put a limit on the heavy weight divion didn't they?

BJJ won the initial NHB fights because they had a whole groundfighting and submission strategy that no one else was prepared for. Everyone just presumed that stand up was the way to go.

It is the way of the world that people will then analyse what is going on and then devise strategies to deal with it, hence people studied BJJ and can now defeat it, sometimes at least.

The MA world owes BJJ a great debt. It dragged many Martial Arts from the joke they were into effective arts, but no one art can be the be all and end all forever.

One wonders where the next great breakthrough will come from.

[knifer]

BRI THAI, (I leave our beef in the other threads)

BJJ won the initial NHB events because Rorion Gracie outlawed the use of techniques that could be used effectively against Royce.

It is true that BJJ is effective and successful in UFC 1 to 4 and so on and so forth. But there are many ways a person not trained in MA can defeat a fighter trained in MA with very simple techniques such as biting and eye gouging.

These techniques were outlawed by Rorion for many reasons. It was too brutal for TV, it could take out Royce etc.

But never underestimate the power of a good bite. Biting is relatively easy to pull off, and many grapplers actually put themself in a position to get chewed out when the looks for a good position for a sub or something.

ALl you got to do is look at the pain Hollyfield felt when Tyson bit his ear. If Tyson wanted, he could have walked over and pulled down Hollyfield's trunks, and Evander would still be jumping around in agony.

Anybody who has got their ear ripped off, or bitten knows how ****in painful it is, and how useless you become when you deal with that kind of pain.

So what I am saying is we can all bite. It's very natural thing to do and easy as hell to pull off and should always look for the opportunity to bite someone, and recognize when we might get bit during training so we are prepared for the street.

Seriously, eye gouging and biting can be a devastating equalizer for the person not trained in MA. A good bite or eye gouge can and will effectively put your black belt adversary out of commission and all you gotta do to train these things is eat steaks and chew gum

[Ice Phoenix]

[BJJ won the initial NHB events because Rorion Gracie outlawed the use of techniques that could be used effectively against Royce.]

Biting and eye gouging can be used effectively against any fighter, not just BJJ guys! Yeah, and I'm sure all the other NHB events around the world now continue to disallow those methods all for Royce's benefit!

When they throw that roundhouse kick, wrap up the leg and take one nice big juicy bite outta that calf, yes, yummy!

I for one am really sick of hearing about this damn eye gouging and biting bullshit! Everybody knows they are effective methods of dirtyfighting when your life is on the line, NOBODY DISAGREES, but we come here to talk about martial arts, not shit like that any moron can pull off!

Can we for once have a conversation about NHB without arguing over the OBVIOUS!

[knifer]

Ice Phoenix,

You have some good points. And even BJJ guys can do biting. I saw Ryan Gracie bite a guys ear off.

Now, what is wrong with talking about biting or dirty tactics?

And why would anyone want to bite a kick that's coming at your head? You're a fool

Agreed. Adding biting and eye gouging to the mix in any martial arts contest would have the potential to change the outcome.

But I have been in dozens of real fights, and no one has ever tried to either bite me or poke my eyes out.

[knifer]

Biting and eye gouging works both ways...

Just as easily you can bite or eye gouge your opponent, he can bite you.

The trick is to know where to bite and when to eye gouge.

The ear is one of the best places to bite. It causes a ridiculous amount of pain.

In my teens, I had a guy try to rip my ear off. He pulled a part of it off my head with his fingers. Just a tiny bit from the top part of my ear and that was it. The fight was over. I was running around in pain much like Evander was after Tyson bit him.

I ran away, and my friend drove me to the hospital where I had to get it stitched. I wasn't allowed to get it wet, so when I took a shower, I had to use one hand to hold a big drinking cup up to cover it so it wouldn't get wet.

I could only imagine the damage and pain if he had used his teeth.

As for eye gouging, it will not always work. Well... you gotta know how to eye gouge. Poking his eye may distract him for a few seconds, but it probably may not stop him.

The best eye attack it to penetrate it with something sharp. Like your long sharpened thumbnail or something.

Or even better is to pop it out of the socket. There are ways to do so that are swift and clean. I could talk about the technique, but since it's somewhat a secret I will not say how to do it. But if you have a working knowledge of human anatomy, it should be quite simple to figure it out.