Wanna Get Serious In Ma, But Not Many To Choose From...

conach · 07-27-2002, 09:10 PM

Hello everyone... I'm from Caracas, Venezuela. I've have been involved in MA but mostly drop out due to boredom. I've practiced Kyokushinkai, Goju-Ryu and Shotokan Karate. I also practiced Ninjitsu for a couple of months and had to stop due to money (awesome MA but expensive).

My current options are:
-Shito-Ryu, Goju-Ryu, Wado-Ryu, Kyokushinkai, Shotokan, Ryu-Irryu and a bunch of other styles of Karate.
-Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and Capoeira (I have the privilege to have the one and only respected BJJ dojo in the country a couple of blocks away from home)
-Many different Kung-Fu styles, including Praying Mantis (the most taught).
-Korean MA: Tae Kwon Do and Kuk Sool Won
-Aikido
-Ninjitsu
-Kickboxing
-Kajukembo
-Kempo
-Judo
-Kali
-Shorinji Kempo

Ok... I think this does it. Since you people have given others advice on many options, I am sure you could help me make a good decision. Unfortunately in Venezuela we don't have a bunch of disciplines to choose from. Like I mentioned earlier, I have a nearby BJJ dojo, but I have read threads here and it came to my mind that BJJ serves as a compliment to an empty hand MA. Seems also that hybrid training is the creme of the creme lately. Correct me if I'm wrong. Is it good to adopt BJJ as a main MA?

What really shortens my choices is also schedules and locations. A friend of mine once invited me to check out the Kuk Sool Won school he practices at. I saw a class and really liked the techniques, but its really far from where I live and I don't own a car. This also applies to the Kajukenbo and Ninjutsu dojos. With Kali, one of the most effective martial arts available here in the list -and to worsen it accesible-, happens that practice hours collide with my work.

I am very aware of the "kicking your ass" philosophy around MA. I bring this up due to some threads I've read. Its not my intention to train to be a bad ass. My Ninjutsu Shidoshi once said that if you had a way to escape, even by running your ass off, do it to avoid a confrontation. He was very serious on this. With all the techniques he was teaching -including with knives, Bo, Kama and all the other toys- he could make oneself a very dangerous person in a fight. Even a very well applied side kick could break a jaw, or an elbow blow like the ones u can learn in Muay Thai can damage seriously. You have no idea of what adrenaline can make you do in a situation, even though u train to handle it. You just never know. A very hard day in the office, some jerk comes along and messes with you and there u go kicking his ass to death. Oh sh... thought I was killing my boss, u say behind bars. Just kidding. What I expect from MA is awareness, strength, fun and security. And most important, no boredom that makes me quit.

So again, I guess BJJ is my only choice so far. But I want to be positively sure in my decision. I happen to know the Sensei, and his kindness and professionalism are worth the dive. He frequently also brings some BJJ/Vale Tudo masters to give seminars.

What do you think?

MrPoopy · 07-28-2002, 01:08 AM

If you're dropping out of MA's because of boredom, then I'm wondering how the sparring is in those MA classes. BJJ is cool and all, but it was the way you can grapple almost full force and damn near never get hurt (as long as you know how to tap) that got me hooked. If you try it, I bet you will like it.
Just try to find something that feels like it will work in a real situation, and something you can practice in a realistic way.

Fighter · 07-28-2002, 02:33 AM

Out of the list you gave me heres what I think and it would be good to cross train in as many as possible, alos of the Kung Fu styles was JKD there?

BJJ
Kick Boxing
Boxing (if possible)
Kali
Judo (for cross training)

But what are you after? Street defence, fitness, what? If its fitness definatly Capoeria!

conach · 07-28-2002, 11:34 AM

Thanks for the threads guys...

Nope. No JKD. If I had the privilege to train JKD here in Caracas, I would be the first one to adopt it. As far as I am concerned, Praying Mantis is the only style practiced here, but not 100% sure of this. What am I after? To be honest, street defence. Definetely.

SweepEm · 07-28-2002, 11:59 AM

We can all talk about what the best martial art is but it comes down to the actual instrucion and the teacher, who will be the best for YOU.

If you are looking for street defense, talk to each instructor to ask them how they teach this and what practial applications you will get out of their instruction for you to have the knowledge to defend yourself in a real life situation.

Fighter · 07-30-2002, 02:42 AM

Its true I did Aikido for a few years and It was CRAP because the teacher did not teach it in a "real" way it was all co-operated. So try to find a school that spars. Sparring is very important.

MinisterofDeath · 08-03-2002, 06:08 PM

What kind of Praying Mantis was it? I dont know much about Northern, but southern has many similarities to Wing Chun, and in my opinion, Its extremely effective.
Just my .02

Fighter · 08-09-2002, 05:28 PM

There was a movie called something like 7 commandments of Kung Fu it had some Mantis in it not to sure of its authentisity but it was OK.

Crash Stitches · 08-12-2002, 01:50 AM

Here's what I'd do. Go to the school that lets you SPAR a lot, so you don't just learn the techniques, but you know how to apply them on a resisting opponnent. By nature, Judo and BJJ have this format. They will do a lot to get you used to dealling with a live, resisting body. I'd crosstrain Judo for throws, BJJ for grappling, and kajukenbo for outright standup, provided that they spar.

Crash Stitches · 08-12-2002, 01:53 AM

oops, I didn't see that you had kickboxing available. in that case, kickboxing, Judo, BJJ. Go to the kickboxing gym for 6 months, Judo for 6 months, then enroll in BJJ to stay, and be sure to train standup with friends to keep those skills sharp.

juss a pair o' pennies from me....

MinisterofDeath · 08-12-2002, 02:05 AM

training an art for only 6 months? uhh I don't think so

Ice Phoenix · 08-12-2002, 02:18 AM

If you train as Crash Stitches suggested I'd do Judo and Kickboxing 1 year maximum, otherwise you get too intricate at throws/footwork and finer details that don't mean shite for combat effectiveness! And then move on to BJJ!

I wouldn't do them one after the other though, I'd permanently cross-train all 3, so then you don't forget the skills you learn!

Crash Stitches · 08-12-2002, 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MinisterofDeath
training an art for only 6 months? uhh I don't think so

No? I've read many articles where experts in Muay Thai have stated that you can become adept and effective at Muay Thai with 6 months of hard training. I think Vut Kramnark (sp?) said it, but I'm not too sure. I know it has been said. And 6 mo. in Judo is plenty of time to learn a few throws well, as I have been told. Other than that, like IP said, you get too deep into sport techniques that mean jack for fighting. Besides, would you rather study groundwork in Judo or BJJ?

Just because you hafta do kung-fu for 30 years before you learn that it's worthless doesn't mean that there are other arts you can learn in 6 mo. and be able to kick an ass.

(No diss to Kung Fu)

MinisterofDeath · 08-12-2002, 08:56 AM

Don't generalize when it comes to kung fu. There are over 2000 styles and I would bet that not all of them take 30years to learn. Wing Chun takes 2.5-3 to learn. About 6 months to defend yourself.

conach · 08-12-2002, 11:21 PM

Ice: why train Judo and Kickboxing for a year and then move to BJJ? Why not do BJJ right away and cross train with Kickboxing or another MA? Is there a particular reason for you to write this?

Crash: unfortunately Kajukenbo is not accesible for me. The dojo is far away from where I live. I also have a Mantis Kung-Fu gym nearby, but I honestly don't feel attracted to Mantis. The only style of Kung-Fu I would practice if I had the opportunity is Wing Chun, but no WC here. I have practiced Kyokushinkai karate and I am considering training again. I remember Gerard Gourdeau kicked some ass (and knocked out some teeth out of a Sumo wrestler) in UFC I.

There's another interesting point Ice brought up and that is "combat effectiveness". Could you define this and what MAs are considered as "effective"? Maybe other people in the forum can add some to this.

I am considering a Kyokushinkai-BJJ cross. What's your opinion on this?

07-27-2002, 09:10 PM	#1 (permalink)
conach Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Venezuela Posts: 72 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Wanna Get Serious In Ma, But Not Many To Choose From... Hello everyone... I'm from Caracas, Venezuela. I've have been involved in MA but mostly drop out due to boredom. I've practiced Kyokushinkai, Goju-Ryu and Shotokan Karate. I also practiced Ninjitsu for a couple of months and had to stop due to money (awesome MA but expensive). My current options are: -Shito-Ryu, Goju-Ryu, Wado-Ryu, Kyokushinkai, Shotokan, Ryu-Irryu and a bunch of other styles of Karate. -Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and Capoeira (I have the privilege to have the one and only respected BJJ dojo in the country a couple of blocks away from home) -Many different Kung-Fu styles, including Praying Mantis (the most taught). -Korean MA: Tae Kwon Do and Kuk Sool Won -Aikido -Ninjitsu -Kickboxing -Kajukembo -Kempo -Judo -Kali -Shorinji Kempo Ok... I think this does it. Since you people have given others advice on many options, I am sure you could help me make a good decision. Unfortunately in Venezuela we don't have a bunch of disciplines to choose from. Like I mentioned earlier, I have a nearby BJJ dojo, but I have read threads here and it came to my mind that BJJ serves as a compliment to an empty hand MA. Seems also that hybrid training is the creme of the creme lately. Correct me if I'm wrong. Is it good to adopt BJJ as a main MA? What really shortens my choices is also schedules and locations. A friend of mine once invited me to check out the Kuk Sool Won school he practices at. I saw a class and really liked the techniques, but its really far from where I live and I don't own a car. This also applies to the Kajukenbo and Ninjutsu dojos. With Kali, one of the most effective martial arts available here in the list -and to worsen it accesible-, happens that practice hours collide with my work. I am very aware of the "kicking your ass" philosophy around MA. I bring this up due to some threads I've read. Its not my intention to train to be a bad ass. My Ninjutsu Shidoshi once said that if you had a way to escape, even by running your ass off, do it to avoid a confrontation. He was very serious on this. With all the techniques he was teaching -including with knives, Bo, Kama and all the other toys- he could make oneself a very dangerous person in a fight. Even a very well applied side kick could break a jaw, or an elbow blow like the ones u can learn in Muay Thai can damage seriously. You have no idea of what adrenaline can make you do in a situation, even though u train to handle it. You just never know. A very hard day in the office, some jerk comes along and messes with you and there u go kicking his ass to death. Oh sh... thought I was killing my boss, u say behind bars. Just kidding. What I expect from MA is awareness, strength, fun and security. And most important, no boredom that makes me quit. So again, I guess BJJ is my only choice so far. But I want to be positively sure in my decision. I happen to know the Sensei, and his kindness and professionalism are worth the dive. He frequently also brings some BJJ/Vale Tudo masters to give seminars. What do you think?

07-28-2002, 01:08 AM	#2 (permalink)
MrPoopy Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Ks Posts: 782 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	If you're dropping out of MA's because of boredom, then I'm wondering how the sparring is in those MA classes. BJJ is cool and all, but it was the way you can grapple almost full force and damn near never get hurt (as long as you know how to tap) that got me hooked. If you try it, I bet you will like it. Just try to find something that feels like it will work in a real situation, and something you can practice in a realistic way. __________________ MrPoopy

07-28-2002, 02:33 AM	#3 (permalink)
Fighter Advanced Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 593 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Out of the list you gave me heres what I think and it would be good to cross train in as many as possible, alos of the Kung Fu styles was JKD there? BJJ Kick Boxing Boxing (if possible) Kali Judo (for cross training) But what are you after? Street defence, fitness, what? If its fitness definatly Capoeria! __________________ "A dream without action is useless, An action without a dream is useless" Email me any time at: Fighter@jkd.com.hk

07-30-2002, 02:42 AM	#6 (permalink)
Fighter Advanced Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 593 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Its true I did Aikido for a few years and It was CRAP because the teacher did not teach it in a "real" way it was all co-operated. So try to find a school that spars. Sparring is very important. __________________ "A dream without action is useless, An action without a dream is useless" Email me any time at: Fighter@jkd.com.hk

08-03-2002, 06:08 PM	#7 (permalink)
MinisterofDeath Novice Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 74 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	What kind of Praying Mantis was it? I dont know much about Northern, but southern has many similarities to Wing Chun, and in my opinion, Its extremely effective. Just my .02 __________________ Self-defense is only an illusion, a dark cloak beneath which lurks a razor-sharp dagger waiting to be plunged into the first unwary victim. Whoever declares that any weapon manufactured today, whether it be a nuclear missle or a .38 special, is created for self-defense should look a little more closely at his own image in the mirror. Either he is a liar or is deceiving himself. Wing Chun kung fu is a very sophisticated weapon--nothing else. It is a science of combat, the intent of which is the total incapacitation of an opponent. It is straightforward, efficient and deadly. If you're looking to learn self-defense, don't study Wing Chun. It would be better for you to master the art of invisibility - Wong Shun Leung

07-28-2002, 11:34 AM	#4 (permalink)
conach Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Venezuela Posts: 72 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the threads guys... Nope. No JKD. If I had the privilege to train JKD here in Caracas, I would be the first one to adopt it. As far as I am concerned, Praying Mantis is the only style practiced here, but not 100% sure of this. What am I after? To be honest, street defence. Definetely.

07-28-2002, 11:59 AM	#5 (permalink)
SweepEm Master Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,846 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	We can all talk about what the best martial art is but it comes down to the actual instrucion and the teacher, who will be the best for YOU. If you are looking for street defense, talk to each instructor to ask them how they teach this and what practial applications you will get out of their instruction for you to have the knowledge to defend yourself in a real life situation.

08-09-2002, 05:28 PM	#8 (permalink)
Fighter Advanced Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 593 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	There was a movie called something like 7 commandments of Kung Fu it had some Mantis in it not to sure of its authentisity but it was OK. __________________ "A dream without action is useless, An action without a dream is useless" Email me any time at: Fighter@jkd.com.hk

08-12-2002, 01:50 AM	#9 (permalink)
Crash Stitches Novice Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegass Posts: 79 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Here's what I'd do. Go to the school that lets you SPAR a lot, so you don't just learn the techniques, but you know how to apply them on a resisting opponnent. By nature, Judo and BJJ have this format. They will do a lot to get you used to dealling with a live, resisting body. I'd crosstrain Judo for throws, BJJ for grappling, and kajukenbo for outright standup, provided that they spar.

08-12-2002, 01:53 AM	#10 (permalink)
Crash Stitches Novice Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegass Posts: 79 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	oops, I didn't see that you had kickboxing available. in that case, kickboxing, Judo, BJJ. Go to the kickboxing gym for 6 months, Judo for 6 months, then enroll in BJJ to stay, and be sure to train standup with friends to keep those skills sharp. juss a pair o' pennies from me....

08-12-2002, 02:05 AM	#11 (permalink)
MinisterofDeath Novice Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 74 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	training an art for only 6 months? uhh I don't think so __________________ Self-defense is only an illusion, a dark cloak beneath which lurks a razor-sharp dagger waiting to be plunged into the first unwary victim. Whoever declares that any weapon manufactured today, whether it be a nuclear missle or a .38 special, is created for self-defense should look a little more closely at his own image in the mirror. Either he is a liar or is deceiving himself. Wing Chun kung fu is a very sophisticated weapon--nothing else. It is a science of combat, the intent of which is the total incapacitation of an opponent. It is straightforward, efficient and deadly. If you're looking to learn self-defense, don't study Wing Chun. It would be better for you to master the art of invisibility - Wong Shun Leung

08-12-2002, 02:18 AM	#12 (permalink)
Ice Phoenix Novice Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 172 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	If you train as Crash Stitches suggested I'd do Judo and Kickboxing 1 year maximum, otherwise you get too intricate at throws/footwork and finer details that don't mean shite for combat effectiveness! And then move on to BJJ! I wouldn't do them one after the other though, I'd permanently cross-train all 3, so then you don't forget the skills you learn! Last edited by Ice Phoenix; 08-12-2002 at 02:20 AM.

08-12-2002, 08:56 AM	#14 (permalink)
MinisterofDeath Novice Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 74 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Don't generalize when it comes to kung fu. There are over 2000 styles and I would bet that not all of them take 30years to learn. Wing Chun takes 2.5-3 to learn. About 6 months to defend yourself. __________________ Self-defense is only an illusion, a dark cloak beneath which lurks a razor-sharp dagger waiting to be plunged into the first unwary victim. Whoever declares that any weapon manufactured today, whether it be a nuclear missle or a .38 special, is created for self-defense should look a little more closely at his own image in the mirror. Either he is a liar or is deceiving himself. Wing Chun kung fu is a very sophisticated weapon--nothing else. It is a science of combat, the intent of which is the total incapacitation of an opponent. It is straightforward, efficient and deadly. If you're looking to learn self-defense, don't study Wing Chun. It would be better for you to master the art of invisibility - Wong Shun Leung

08-12-2002, 11:21 PM	#15 (permalink)
conach Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Venezuela Posts: 72 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ice: why train Judo and Kickboxing for a year and then move to BJJ? Why not do BJJ right away and cross train with Kickboxing or another MA? Is there a particular reason for you to write this? Crash: unfortunately Kajukenbo is not accesible for me. The dojo is far away from where I live. I also have a Mantis Kung-Fu gym nearby, but I honestly don't feel attracted to Mantis. The only style of Kung-Fu I would practice if I had the opportunity is Wing Chun, but no WC here. I have practiced Kyokushinkai karate and I am considering training again. I remember Gerard Gourdeau kicked some ass (and knocked out some teeth out of a Sumo wrestler) in UFC I. There's another interesting point Ice brought up and that is "combat effectiveness". Could you define this and what MAs are considered as "effective"? Maybe other people in the forum can add some to this. I am considering a Kyokushinkai-BJJ cross. What's your opinion on this?

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes	Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode	Rate This Thread: