Loosing with Honor

L3FTH00K · 10-31-2000, 04:55 AM

I want to express my opinion about the Sak vs Royce Gracie fight. I want to know why people keep saying Royce loss to Sak due to exhaustion or he was gassed. Royce lost by submission, teachnically Royce tapped in his corner. He quit, he took his beating like a Man and then his corner threw the towel.

Maybe it's just me but if I was Royce Gracie I would rather say I lost to Sak by KO. To simply say I lost an fight becaused I was gassed is less Honorable. Now Ken on the other hand was gassed, there is an difference. Ken was not in trouble against Fujita and he threw in the towel. Royce clearly took the beating of his life and simply lost a great war against an better opposition.

Ryu (non-working password · 10-31-2000, 04:58 AM

You'll hear no argument from me on that. I believe Royce gave it his all and lost fairly and convincingly in KO (or at least TKO) fashion.
The man went home in a wheelchair, so the people who keep holding on to what he could have done need to just get over the fact that he lost. He may win next time, who knows.

Ryu

Jimmy23 · 10-31-2000, 05:01 AM

I think that any who question Royces determination or skill should just ask who else has lasted as long against Sak?

royceg420 · 10-31-2000, 01:41 PM

I hate doing this but I'm going to agree with you guys. It's just that hearing that Royce Gracie lost was like hearing my grandfather had just died. I'm still in shock as that I've still not seen the fight. Royce is my hero and he wasn't supposed to be beaten...but he was.

....at least he lost with honor

Mako · 10-31-2000, 07:35 PM

Royce... seriously? It was like hearing that your grandfather died? Do you know Royce pretty well?

I was once talking w/a well known fighter, and he told me that it literally made him sick when he saw a friend of his taking a beating in a televised NHB event. That makes sense. To many of us (me included), I don't know these guys, it's entertainment. But think about watching a close friend getting hurt. That's tough.

It may be a battle of semantics, but I agree that Royce LOST with honor (he fought like a warrior), but I don't think he handled the loss with much (lot's of excuses).

Renzo lost with honor, AND took the loss w/honor.

Jimmy23 · 10-31-2000, 09:43 PM

my only NHB fight I had to fight one of my training partners,due to no shows at the event.He was much better than me,I knew I stood little chance going in.As a result I think I stayed in the fight longer than I should have.He had achieved the full mount and it became obvious ,after several tries ,that I wasnt going to get him off,and at one point as he was raining punches down at me he actually said "tap,James,dammit ,tap!".I stayed in until I took a blow that stunned me and blackness started closing in,then I tapped real quick.It was weird between us after that,and in the event that I ever fight again it wont be against anyone I know.Im willing to bet that it wasnt easy on him having to whoop up on a buddy.
Oh for anyone whos never fought,when you leave the cage and spectators insist on telling you that you have a lot of heart,it means youve just taken a major beat down.

Joe Manco · 11-01-2000, 12:26 AM

Royce lost with NO honor!!!

We can talk about time, we can talk about "giving it his all" ... BULLSH!T!

If you boil it all down, he tried and tried ... until he got hurt. And when he got hurt he quit like a b!tch.

And then after the fight he whined like a b!tch.

Yours truly,

Joe

11-01-2000, 12:30 AM

Joe:

He fought for an hour after getting his foot BROKEN. That isn't exactly "quitting like a bitch", as you so eloquently put it.

Did Smokin' Joe Frazier "quit like a bitch" in Manilla when his corner decided he was done? Royce didn't quit, Rorion threw in the towel, no doubt with Helio's endorsement.

I will certainly agree that he whines too much, though. I'm not sure if he whines like a "bitch" or not.

You would have more expertise in this matter.

YeLLa-TiGeR · 11-01-2000, 12:48 AM

I think quiting was a mutual decision. They asked Royce if he could continue, he replied by saying his foot and leg was hurt.

(dont quote me on this!)

Shimora · 11-01-2000, 12:50 AM

When a warrior loses it is customary for him to disembowel himself with a sword. He should have a friend ready to decaptitate him in case the disembowelment is unsuccessful.
This is the only way to have some dignity in losing.

Joe Manco · 11-01-2000, 02:38 AM

Ho-nin:
I thought I revoked your license to evaluate fighters. To compare the kind of physical abuse Frazier endured in that fight ... to Royce hurting his footsie ... just put you in the Lamer Hall of Fame.

Yours truly,

Joe

11-01-2000, 02:41 AM

Shimora:

In those days when a "warrior" lost a match he was usually dead, so self-disembowelment was neither possible nor desirable.

Today's fighters are not "warriors", they are sportsmen. Boxers, wrestlers, MMA'ers...they fight for prize money, glory, and to entertain dorks like us. War is fought for country or family, without mercy, to the death.

There is no comparison. In a sport-fight there are always winners and losers, both usually alive. In a war there are the victors, and there are the dead.

Royce fought honorably as long as he could, but there is no point in sport-fighting beyond the point where you can reasonably defend yourself, as well as attack the opponent. If he had shown more class after the fight, my respect for him would have increased.

11-01-2000, 02:45 AM

Joe:

Frazier's handlers didn't stop the fight because he was "hurt", they stopped it because he was blind and could no longer see where Ali was. In other words, he was toast.

If Frazier's foot was broken, he wouldn't have been in any better a position. YOU try fighting on one foot, and see how long you last. I've tried it. No mobility = sitting duck. Royce was a goner either way. No point in prolonging his agony.

TKO. Check-mate.

PunchDrunk · 11-01-2000, 02:56 AM

Ronin...one hundred percent correct, well said.

Joe Manco...WTF? I think you got Royce mixed up with Fido.
Royce is a human being. A man.

He will fight again.

Shimora · 11-01-2000, 11:31 AM

Ho-nin (thanks Pit)

You show your ignorance more with every sentence you write. Firstly you of all people should know to which warriors I am referring to re the disembowelment thing. A Ronin is a Samurai with no master correct? It was the Samurai that gutted themselves. Go back to Samurai school please.

Frazier was not blind at the end of round 14 of the Thrilla in Manilla. The man was almost dead from the punishment his body had taken. The man spent several weeks in hospital in a serious condition. How many weeks did Royce spend in hospital from his sore little leggy weggy? Ali said that he has never been as close to death as he was at the end of that fight. Did you ever see the fight? I watched it live and it was a war. Both men nearly died that day in the Manilla heat and humidity. Did Royce nearly die in his bitch slapping match with Sak? Somehow I doubt it.

I would compare Royce fighting with a broken bone in his leg to Danielsan in the Karate Kid. If only Royce had trained with Mr Miagi instead of Rorion. He could have done that stork thing on one leg and knocked Sak out.

10-31-2000, 04:58 AM	#2 (permalink)
Ryu (non-working password Advanced Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 1,269	You'll hear no argument from me on that. I believe Royce gave it his all and lost fairly and convincingly in KO (or at least TKO) fashion. The man went home in a wheelchair, so the people who keep holding on to what he could have done need to just get over the fact that he lost. He may win next time, who knows. Ryu __________________ [img] http://www.angelfire.com/anime/gohandbz11/fdeath.gif[/img] Hontoo da to iu koto o mitomenakereba narimasen.

10-31-2000, 05:01 AM	#3 (permalink)
Jimmy23 Novice Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Biloxi,Mississippi Posts: 60	I think that any who question Royces determination or skill should just ask who else has lasted as long against Sak? __________________ Only a fool hates the truth,but the world is full of fools Karl Gotch

10-31-2000, 01:41 PM	#4 (permalink)
royceg420 Novice Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 98	he'll win the rematch though I hate doing this but I'm going to agree with you guys. It's just that hearing that Royce Gracie lost was like hearing my grandfather had just died. I'm still in shock as that I've still not seen the fight. Royce is my hero and he wasn't supposed to be beaten...but he was. ....at least he lost with honor __________________ If gloves don't stop brain damage why wear 'em?

10-31-2000, 09:43 PM	#6 (permalink)
Jimmy23 Novice Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Biloxi,Mississippi Posts: 60	my only NHB fight I had to fight one of my training partners,due to no shows at the event.He was much better than me,I knew I stood little chance going in.As a result I think I stayed in the fight longer than I should have.He had achieved the full mount and it became obvious ,after several tries ,that I wasnt going to get him off,and at one point as he was raining punches down at me he actually said "tap,James,dammit ,tap!".I stayed in until I took a blow that stunned me and blackness started closing in,then I tapped real quick.It was weird between us after that,and in the event that I ever fight again it wont be against anyone I know.Im willing to bet that it wasnt easy on him having to whoop up on a buddy. Oh for anyone whos never fought,when you leave the cage and spectators insist on telling you that you have a lot of heart,it means youve just taken a major beat down. __________________ Only a fool hates the truth,but the world is full of fools Karl Gotch

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10-31-2000, 04:55 AM	#1 (permalink)
L3FTH00K Novice Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 70	I want to express my opinion about the Sak vs Royce Gracie fight. I want to know why people keep saying Royce loss to Sak due to exhaustion or he was gassed. Royce lost by submission, teachnically Royce tapped in his corner. He quit, he took his beating like a Man and then his corner threw the towel. Maybe it's just me but if I was Royce Gracie I would rather say I lost to Sak by KO. To simply say I lost an fight becaused I was gassed is less Honorable. Now Ken on the other hand was gassed, there is an difference. Ken was not in trouble against Fujita and he threw in the towel. Royce clearly took the beating of his life and simply lost a great war against an better opposition.

10-31-2000, 07:35 PM	#5 (permalink)
Mako Novice Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 274	Royce... seriously? It was like hearing that your grandfather died? Do you know Royce pretty well? I was once talking w/a well known fighter, and he told me that it literally made him sick when he saw a friend of his taking a beating in a televised NHB event. That makes sense. To many of us (me included), I don't know these guys, it's entertainment. But think about watching a close friend getting hurt. That's tough. It may be a battle of semantics, but I agree that Royce LOST with honor (he fought like a warrior), but I don't think he handled the loss with much (lot's of excuses). Renzo lost with honor, AND took the loss w/honor.

11-01-2000, 12:26 AM	#7 (permalink)
Joe Manco Novice Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: High Plains Drifter Posts: 284	Royce lost with NO honor!!! We can talk about time, we can talk about "giving it his all" ... BULLSH!T! If you boil it all down, he tried and tried ... until he got hurt. And when he got hurt he quit like a b!tch. And then after the fight he whined like a b!tch. Yours truly, Joe

11-01-2000, 12:30 AM	#8 (permalink)
Ronin Guest Posts: n/a	Joe: He fought for an hour after getting his foot BROKEN. That isn't exactly "quitting like a bitch", as you so eloquently put it. Did Smokin' Joe Frazier "quit like a bitch" in Manilla when his corner decided he was done? Royce didn't quit, Rorion threw in the towel, no doubt with Helio's endorsement. I will certainly agree that he whines too much, though. I'm not sure if he whines like a "bitch" or not. You would have more expertise in this matter.

11-01-2000, 12:48 AM	#9 (permalink)
YeLLa-TiGeR Registered User Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Boston Posts: 1,148	I think quiting was a mutual decision. They asked Royce if he could continue, he replied by saying his foot and leg was hurt. (dont quote me on this!)

11-01-2000, 12:50 AM	#10 (permalink)
Shimora Registered User Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Papua New Guinea Posts: 671	When a warrior loses it is customary for him to disembowel himself with a sword. He should have a friend ready to decaptitate him in case the disembowelment is unsuccessful. This is the only way to have some dignity in losing.

11-01-2000, 02:38 AM	#11 (permalink)
Joe Manco Novice Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: High Plains Drifter Posts: 284	Ho-nin: I thought I revoked your license to evaluate fighters. To compare the kind of physical abuse Frazier endured in that fight ... to Royce hurting his footsie ... just put you in the Lamer Hall of Fame. Yours truly, Joe

11-01-2000, 02:41 AM	#12 (permalink)
Ronin Guest Posts: n/a	Shimora: In those days when a "warrior" lost a match he was usually dead, so self-disembowelment was neither possible nor desirable. Today's fighters are not "warriors", they are sportsmen. Boxers, wrestlers, MMA'ers...they fight for prize money, glory, and to entertain dorks like us. War is fought for country or family, without mercy, to the death. There is no comparison. In a sport-fight there are always winners and losers, both usually alive. In a war there are the victors, and there are the dead. Royce fought honorably as long as he could, but there is no point in sport-fighting beyond the point where you can reasonably defend yourself, as well as attack the opponent. If he had shown more class after the fight, my respect for him would have increased.

11-01-2000, 02:45 AM	#13 (permalink)
Ronin Guest Posts: n/a	Joe: Frazier's handlers didn't stop the fight because he was "hurt", they stopped it because he was blind and could no longer see where Ali was. In other words, he was toast. If Frazier's foot was broken, he wouldn't have been in any better a position. YOU try fighting on one foot, and see how long you last. I've tried it. No mobility = sitting duck. Royce was a goner either way. No point in prolonging his agony. TKO. Check-mate.

11-01-2000, 02:56 AM	#14 (permalink)
PunchDrunk Novice Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 26	Ronin...one hundred percent correct, well said. Joe Manco...WTF? I think you got Royce mixed up with Fido. Royce is a human being. A man. He will fight again.

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11-01-2000, 11:31 AM	#15 (permalink)
Shimora Registered User Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Papua New Guinea Posts: 671	Ho-nin (thanks Pit) You show your ignorance more with every sentence you write. Firstly you of all people should know to which warriors I am referring to re the disembowelment thing. A Ronin is a Samurai with no master correct? It was the Samurai that gutted themselves. Go back to Samurai school please. Frazier was not blind at the end of round 14 of the Thrilla in Manilla. The man was almost dead from the punishment his body had taken. The man spent several weeks in hospital in a serious condition. How many weeks did Royce spend in hospital from his sore little leggy weggy? Ali said that he has never been as close to death as he was at the end of that fight. Did you ever see the fight? I watched it live and it was a war. Both men nearly died that day in the Manilla heat and humidity. Did Royce nearly die in his bitch slapping match with Sak? Somehow I doubt it. I would compare Royce fighting with a broken bone in his leg to Danielsan in the Karate Kid. If only Royce had trained with Mr Miagi instead of Rorion. He could have done that stork thing on one leg and knocked Sak out.