The Ultimate in Martial Arts

thirtytwohits · 08-25-2002, 01:51 PM

cmon, we all know

Szczepankiewicz · 08-26-2002, 12:22 PM

No, we don't.....

jeronimo · 08-26-2002, 02:28 PM

By "amateur" you meaned white belt ?
BJJ white belt against TKD black belt ... That shows how efficient the BJJ is compare to TKD !
With my humble white belt of BJJ, I submitted several brown and even some black belt of judo, so, considering that I won't be KOyed in one kick, I suppose I can clinch, takedown and submit a TKD fighter. But it is not 100% sure, of course !
A white belt of TKD can also KO me, I suppose !
Amaury Bitteti, twice "absoluto" world champion of BJJ has been KOyed by "Mestre Hulk" who was doing Capoeira ! Almost a dancer !

Ice Phoenix · 08-27-2002, 03:29 AM

I guarantee you I could submit any TKD black belt of my own approximate weight!

C'mon, we all know BJJ is more effective than TKD!!! Anyone who doubts this is an ignorant moron!

Szczepankiewicz · 08-27-2002, 08:57 AM

You 'guarantee'? How delightfully modest.

MinisterofDeath · 08-27-2002, 09:27 AM

what is it with people and these 'art vs. art' threads.

jeronimo · 08-27-2002, 10:23 AM

At a time UFC was a "pure styles" place of comparison, TKD record was :
Tae Kwon Do 1-8

During the same time, the overall record of BJJ was much more impressive :
Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu 32-21-1

Easy to compare, isn't it ?

Szczepankiewicz · 08-27-2002, 01:39 PM

Yes, it's easy to compare TKD vs. BJJ when fought under a rules system that is more similar to BJJ competition than to TKD competition, the results are truly obvious to the casual observer....

I like how you qualify the statements "In the EARLY UFC"
.....back BEFORE fighters figured out how to defeat the dominant style.

See if you look at what I'm saying using my perspective, and ONLY my perspective, how can you HELP but to see the TRUTH???

I've said it before, if you REALLY want to know, bring on the THUNDERDOME!

SZ

Ice Phoenix · 08-27-2002, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Szczepankiewicz
You 'guarantee'? How delightfully modest.

Or your money back!

So SZ, you are basically admitting that BJJ rules are closer to reality than TKD rules? Aha! A breakthrough!

Anyone who posts on a thread and spoils a fun TKD bashing session deserves to take a double-spinning-hook-flip kick to the head!

MinisterofDeath · 08-27-2002, 06:34 PM

why is it that people bash other styles? is it that you're insecure or something. There should be respect for all arts.

Ice Phoenix · 08-28-2002, 02:53 AM

Why should I respect TKD?

I have no respect for a style that tells it's practitioners that it is good for self-defense, but then proceeds to teach a bunch of fancy kicks and ridiculous forms and engrain bad habits into it's students via point sparring, and to top it all off having a total lack of grappling in it's curriculum!

And don't give me none of this bullsheet about how only the Mcdojo TKD clubs are like this, cause THEY'RE ALL MCDOJO!

The fact is that the vast majority of TKD instructors preach self-defense, whether they actually believe it or not, and that is simply unforgivable!

Troll Virus · 08-28-2002, 06:57 AM

Why should I respect TKD?

1/ If you don't show respect for other styles, why should they respect yours?

2/ Your opinion carries less weight than their Instructors will, so as you attack their system, they automatically dismiss every opinion you have about everything!

3/ Because it's plain good manners.

4/ Because there are some very, very good TKD people out there.

I could pick out a fair number of Black Belt TKD exponents who could drop any BJJ beginner in their tracks.

You've made a very broad generalisation here IP.

Szczepankiewicz · 08-28-2002, 09:11 AM

Everyone likes to make fun of TKD. We do it (make fun that is) at our dojo too. We actually have a TKD Black Belt (I believe he is second Dan) and a 3rd degree brown belt who have started training at our school. I haven't met the Black Belt yet, but the Brownie is young, ambitious, athletic and a good student.

He came in with a little overconfidence for which he learned some things the hard way. But he is eager and open minded so he will continue to learn and improve. Combine his TKD and KKJ and whatever he studies in the future and he will be awesome.

IP, 'closer to reality'? How do you mean?

The original UFC only prohibited a few nasty moves. The rest was allowed. Don't get me wrong, BJJ is an awesome art, but that doesn't mean it's THE best or the most street lethal or even the most realistic. BJJ dominated because Royce Gracie dominated. He definitely had a edge, he knew exactly what to expect. Added to that he had skills no one could match or counter.

This is in no way a dig at Royce. But he knew what to expect and that is a major psychological advantage. The UFC is not real fighting. The Gracie Challenge is not real fighting (it's Vale Tudo). Vale Tudo is more like an old fashion gentleman's duel. To my knowledge the Gracies never killed anyone. If someone gave up they let them go.

In a 'real fight' their is no tapout, no submission, no referee stoppage, and absolutely no rules.

If you want to say that BJJ is CLOSER to reality than TKD, then I could also say that the World Wrestling Federation is closer to reality that TKD!

But neither is truly reality. Hell man, I'm not even sure reality is reality.....

Is that dead horse beaten enough yet?

SZ

Troll Virus · 08-28-2002, 09:53 AM

Hi Szczepankiewicz (thank god for cut n paste)

My thoughts are that we should really only make fun of people who are close minded. Every style/system has people like this, it's not the style, but the people. We're probably more conscious of the TKD people because there is more TKD around than anything else, and they usually market in a very forward fashion.

I think BJJ is a wonderful system, but I would hesitate to promote it as effective street defence by itself, if only for the simple reason that taking someone to the ground is likely to get you stabbed in the back with a screwdriver by the guys mates. This is the problem. It's a one on one art, whereas some of the striking systems can claim to be more effective against multiple attackers.

At the end of the day, it's up to the individual to either make their system work, or supplement it in some way.

Just my 2 reubels worth

MinisterofDeath · 08-28-2002, 10:07 AM

word yo

View Poll Results: BJJ(amaetuer) vs TKD(black belt)
BJJ	40	65.57%
TKD	21	34.43%
Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll

08-25-2002, 01:51 PM	#1 (permalink)
thirtytwohits Novice Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 34 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	BJJ vs TKD cmon, we all know

08-27-2002, 09:27 AM	#6 (permalink)
MinisterofDeath Novice Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 74 Groans: 0 Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post	what is it with people and these 'art vs. art' threads. __________________ Self-defense is only an illusion, a dark cloak beneath which lurks a razor-sharp dagger waiting to be plunged into the first unwary victim. Whoever declares that any weapon manufactured today, whether it be a nuclear missle or a .38 special, is created for self-defense should look a little more closely at his own image in the mirror. Either he is a liar or is deceiving himself. Wing Chun kung fu is a very sophisticated weapon--nothing else. It is a science of combat, the intent of which is the total incapacitation of an opponent. It is straightforward, efficient and deadly. If you're looking to learn self-defense, don't study Wing Chun. It would be better for you to master the art of invisibility - Wong Shun Leung

08-27-2002, 06:34 PM	#10 (permalink)
MinisterofDeath Novice Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 74 Groans: 0 Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post	why is it that people bash other styles? is it that you're insecure or something. There should be respect for all arts. __________________ Self-defense is only an illusion, a dark cloak beneath which lurks a razor-sharp dagger waiting to be plunged into the first unwary victim. Whoever declares that any weapon manufactured today, whether it be a nuclear missle or a .38 special, is created for self-defense should look a little more closely at his own image in the mirror. Either he is a liar or is deceiving himself. Wing Chun kung fu is a very sophisticated weapon--nothing else. It is a science of combat, the intent of which is the total incapacitation of an opponent. It is straightforward, efficient and deadly. If you're looking to learn self-defense, don't study Wing Chun. It would be better for you to master the art of invisibility - Wong Shun Leung

08-28-2002, 10:07 AM	#15 (permalink)
MinisterofDeath Novice Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 74 Groans: 0 Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post	word yo __________________ Self-defense is only an illusion, a dark cloak beneath which lurks a razor-sharp dagger waiting to be plunged into the first unwary victim. Whoever declares that any weapon manufactured today, whether it be a nuclear missle or a .38 special, is created for self-defense should look a little more closely at his own image in the mirror. Either he is a liar or is deceiving himself. Wing Chun kung fu is a very sophisticated weapon--nothing else. It is a science of combat, the intent of which is the total incapacitation of an opponent. It is straightforward, efficient and deadly. If you're looking to learn self-defense, don't study Wing Chun. It would be better for you to master the art of invisibility - Wong Shun Leung

08-26-2002, 12:22 PM	#2 (permalink)
Szczepankiewicz Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Meridian, ID, USA Posts: 4,109 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	No, we don't.....

08-26-2002, 02:28 PM	#3 (permalink)
jeronimo Novice Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: île de la Réunion, océan Indien Posts: 28 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	By "amateur" you meaned white belt ? BJJ white belt against TKD black belt ... That shows how efficient the BJJ is compare to TKD ! With my humble white belt of BJJ, I submitted several brown and even some black belt of judo, so, considering that I won't be KOyed in one kick, I suppose I can clinch, takedown and submit a TKD fighter. But it is not 100% sure, of course ! A white belt of TKD can also KO me, I suppose ! Amaury Bitteti, twice "absoluto" world champion of BJJ has been KOyed by "Mestre Hulk" who was doing Capoeira ! Almost a dancer !

08-27-2002, 03:29 AM	#4 (permalink)
Ice Phoenix Novice Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 172 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I guarantee you I could submit any TKD black belt of my own approximate weight! C'mon, we all know BJJ is more effective than TKD!!! Anyone who doubts this is an ignorant moron!

08-27-2002, 08:57 AM	#5 (permalink)
Szczepankiewicz Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Meridian, ID, USA Posts: 4,109 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	You 'guarantee'? How delightfully modest.

08-27-2002, 10:23 AM	#7 (permalink)
jeronimo Novice Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: île de la Réunion, océan Indien Posts: 28 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	At a time UFC was a "pure styles" place of comparison, TKD record was : Tae Kwon Do 1-8 During the same time, the overall record of BJJ was much more impressive : Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu 32-21-1 Easy to compare, isn't it ?

08-27-2002, 01:39 PM	#8 (permalink)
Szczepankiewicz Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Meridian, ID, USA Posts: 4,109 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Yes, it's easy to compare TKD vs. BJJ when fought under a rules system that is more similar to BJJ competition than to TKD competition, the results are truly obvious to the casual observer.... I like how you qualify the statements "In the EARLY UFC" .....back BEFORE fighters figured out how to defeat the dominant style. See if you look at what I'm saying using my perspective, and ONLY my perspective, how can you HELP but to see the TRUTH??? I've said it before, if you REALLY want to know, bring on the THUNDERDOME! SZ

08-28-2002, 02:53 AM	#11 (permalink)
Ice Phoenix Novice Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 172 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Why should I respect TKD? I have no respect for a style that tells it's practitioners that it is good for self-defense, but then proceeds to teach a bunch of fancy kicks and ridiculous forms and engrain bad habits into it's students via point sparring, and to top it all off having a total lack of grappling in it's curriculum! And don't give me none of this bullsheet about how only the Mcdojo TKD clubs are like this, cause THEY'RE ALL MCDOJO! The fact is that the vast majority of TKD instructors preach self-defense, whether they actually believe it or not, and that is simply unforgivable!

08-28-2002, 06:57 AM	#12 (permalink)
Troll Virus Premiere Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Under a Bridge Posts: 802 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Why should I respect TKD? 1/ If you don't show respect for other styles, why should they respect yours? 2/ Your opinion carries less weight than their Instructors will, so as you attack their system, they automatically dismiss every opinion you have about everything! 3/ Because it's plain good manners. 4/ Because there are some very, very good TKD people out there. I could pick out a fair number of Black Belt TKD exponents who could drop any BJJ beginner in their tracks. You've made a very broad generalisation here IP.

08-28-2002, 09:11 AM	#13 (permalink)
Szczepankiewicz Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Meridian, ID, USA Posts: 4,109 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Everyone likes to make fun of TKD. We do it (make fun that is) at our dojo too. We actually have a TKD Black Belt (I believe he is second Dan) and a 3rd degree brown belt who have started training at our school. I haven't met the Black Belt yet, but the Brownie is young, ambitious, athletic and a good student. He came in with a little overconfidence for which he learned some things the hard way. But he is eager and open minded so he will continue to learn and improve. Combine his TKD and KKJ and whatever he studies in the future and he will be awesome. IP, 'closer to reality'? How do you mean? The original UFC only prohibited a few nasty moves. The rest was allowed. Don't get me wrong, BJJ is an awesome art, but that doesn't mean it's THE best or the most street lethal or even the most realistic. BJJ dominated because Royce Gracie dominated. He definitely had a edge, he knew exactly what to expect. Added to that he had skills no one could match or counter. This is in no way a dig at Royce. But he knew what to expect and that is a major psychological advantage. The UFC is not real fighting. The Gracie Challenge is not real fighting (it's Vale Tudo). Vale Tudo is more like an old fashion gentleman's duel. To my knowledge the Gracies never killed anyone. If someone gave up they let them go. In a 'real fight' their is no tapout, no submission, no referee stoppage, and absolutely no rules. If you want to say that BJJ is CLOSER to reality than TKD, then I could also say that the World Wrestling Federation is closer to reality that TKD! But neither is truly reality. Hell man, I'm not even sure reality is reality..... Is that dead horse beaten enough yet? SZ

08-28-2002, 09:53 AM	#14 (permalink)
Troll Virus Premiere Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Under a Bridge Posts: 802 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi Szczepankiewicz (thank god for cut n paste) My thoughts are that we should really only make fun of people who are close minded. Every style/system has people like this, it's not the style, but the people. We're probably more conscious of the TKD people because there is more TKD around than anything else, and they usually market in a very forward fashion. I think BJJ is a wonderful system, but I would hesitate to promote it as effective street defence by itself, if only for the simple reason that taking someone to the ground is likely to get you stabbed in the back with a screwdriver by the guys mates. This is the problem. It's a one on one art, whereas some of the striking systems can claim to be more effective against multiple attackers. At the end of the day, it's up to the individual to either make their system work, or supplement it in some way. Just my 2 reubels worth

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