The Ultimate in Martial Arts

Mad Dog · 09-04-2002, 08:54 PM

After the last Pride event, based on internet accounts, I was led to believe that Royce was dominated and almost put to sleep by a choke. I thought all the hooting and hollering from the Gracie camp was just a bunch of sour grapes. This wasn't the case. Up until the closing seconds of the fight it was basically even. At the time the ref stopped the fight there was no indication whatsoever that Royce was in trouble or was tapping. Definitely a terrible call on the ref's part, especially considering the fighters who were involved. Just had to get that out..

Tim Mousel · 09-05-2002, 12:29 PM

I agree, the fight should not have been stopped. Royce didn't tap nor was he unconscious. A rematch would be good.

Tim

tom b · 09-08-2002, 12:01 AM

Sire, stop the match and try it again, maybe the third incarnation of the Jujjitsu-Judo fight the jujijtui advocates will try to prove their they are superior even under Judo rules

At least Kimura and Yoshida obliged the first two times around

doubleouch · 09-09-2002, 11:49 AM

Man, I remember when this forum was all about Royce and Gracie JJ. Now Royce looses a contraversial decision and no one seems to care. How times have changed!

Szczepankiewicz · 09-09-2002, 01:04 PM

There is still a small amount of outrage. But I think reality has caught up with the forum and thanks to the Gracies, everyone's scope has expanded tremendously.

SZ

Mr. Miyagi · 09-09-2002, 02:20 PM

Because there are tons of guys who could destroy both of those guys under the same rules. That's why noone seems to care. People are sick of seeing weird matches occur under Gracie rules. Pride is a MMA organization with it's own rules, why do they have to have matches like this on their card?

Mad Dog · 09-09-2002, 07:18 PM

Miyagi-san has some truth to his statements. I have no idea what Tom b is saying???

JaredExtreme · 09-10-2002, 09:18 PM

I really admire what Royce did in the early UFC's, but I think we all know he's no longer in his prime. There's plenty of other good, technical BJJ'ers that deserve exposure.

Martial Artist · 09-12-2002, 09:24 AM

I feel sorry for Royce. He took this match only because it was the 50th anniversy of Helio Kimure and to get screwed BIGTIME like this must suck. Royce was closer to tapping Yoshida with the footlock than Yoshida was with the choke.

Mr. Miyagi · 09-12-2002, 02:10 PM

OK, fine. He got screwed.

But matches like this are unnecessary for an organization with shows as big as PRIDE.

So many juijitsu black belts would have tapped those two guys, no problem. I bet even little Royler could tap them without breaking a sweat.

ultim8jj · 09-12-2002, 05:46 PM

Mr. Miyagi - where did you hear it was under Gracie rules?!?!?!?!

The rules where there for the Judoka to make it a bit fairer - Who really needed the rules imposed more? Royce or Yoshida?

Think boy, think!

Mr. Miyagi · 09-13-2002, 05:38 PM

I never said it was Gracie rules. I didn't like the rules and I think most people didn't, I was criticising the match, not the competitors. As I said before there are so many grapplers that would destroy both of them under the same rules, and Pride is supposed to be a fighting organization for high profile champions. Even so, I don't think the rules were to protect the judoka either, it's not as if Royce was going to outbox him or ground-n-pound him.

ultim8jj · 09-14-2002, 07:03 AM

Who's better at striking, Royce or Yoshida?

For gods sake, Royce whipped everyone's arses in the early UFC's against a lot of strikers - did Yoshida?

The Pride organisation is heavily biased and (not surprisingly) wants Japanese champions.

Quite a simple argument as far as the rules go - god knows who started the rumour that Royce wanted the rules - my club is close friends with Royce and we've spoken to him plenty of times.

Get your facts right people!

Since some organisations don't pay enough money for fighters, they don't enter, simple as that. So for everyone that says the Gracie's don't fight anymore cos they'll be beaten, there's the reason!

Mr. Miyagi · 09-14-2002, 04:06 PM

Royce might have won in the early UFC's against strikers but it is pretty irrelevant at this point. He does not benefit from striking (and in this case Yoshida doesn't either). I just think that match shouldn't have happened.

So you're club is friends with Royce, that's just what I figured. He asked for special rules against Wallid, Takada, and Sakuraba. If Saku were not allowed to strike against him (and Saku is not a good striker either) that match could go on forever.

I'm sure someone like Wallid (and most other black belts) would easily have destroyed Royce or Yoshida under the same rules.

And finally, yes, the Gracies don't fight anymore because they would lose, and the ones that try do lose.

09-04-2002, 08:54 PM	#1 (permalink)
Mad Dog Novice Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Antioch, Ca Posts: 162 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Royce was shafted!!! After the last Pride event, based on internet accounts, I was led to believe that Royce was dominated and almost put to sleep by a choke. I thought all the hooting and hollering from the Gracie camp was just a bunch of sour grapes. This wasn't the case. Up until the closing seconds of the fight it was basically even. At the time the ref stopped the fight there was no indication whatsoever that Royce was in trouble or was tapping. Definitely a terrible call on the ref's part, especially considering the fighters who were involved. Just had to get that out.. __________________ He who contemplates the possibility of defeat is but a step away from achieving it....

09-09-2002, 07:18 PM	#7 (permalink)
Mad Dog Novice Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Antioch, Ca Posts: 162 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Miyagi-san has some truth to his statements. I have no idea what Tom b is saying??? __________________ He who contemplates the possibility of defeat is but a step away from achieving it....

09-10-2002, 09:18 PM	#8 (permalink)
JaredExtreme Registered User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,115 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I really admire what Royce did in the early UFC's, but I think we all know he's no longer in his prime. There's plenty of other good, technical BJJ'ers that deserve exposure. __________________ "I don't fight in the street, there's no mats out there." - JaredExtreme

09-12-2002, 09:24 AM	#9 (permalink)
Martial Artist Advanced Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Orange, Texas Posts: 536 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I feel sorry for Royce. He took this match only because it was the 50th anniversy of Helio Kimure and to get screwed BIGTIME like this must suck. Royce was closer to tapping Yoshida with the footlock than Yoshida was with the choke. __________________ "Kerr should sparr Mike Tyson because they have talked before on the phone" Tape Lord

09-14-2002, 07:03 AM	#13 (permalink)
ultim8jj Novice Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sheffield, UK Posts: 3 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Judo Striker?!?!?! Who's better at striking, Royce or Yoshida? For gods sake, Royce whipped everyone's arses in the early UFC's against a lot of strikers - did Yoshida? The Pride organisation is heavily biased and (not surprisingly) wants Japanese champions. Quite a simple argument as far as the rules go - god knows who started the rumour that Royce wanted the rules - my club is close friends with Royce and we've spoken to him plenty of times. Get your facts right people! Since some organisations don't pay enough money for fighters, they don't enter, simple as that. So for everyone that says the Gracie's don't fight anymore cos they'll be beaten, there's the reason!

09-05-2002, 12:29 PM	#2 (permalink)
Tim Mousel Administrator Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 2,717 Groans: 0 Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post	I agree, the fight should not have been stopped. Royce didn't tap nor was he unconscious. A rematch would be good. Tim

09-08-2002, 12:01 AM	#3 (permalink)
tom b Novice Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 4 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Sire, stop the match and try it again, maybe the third incarnation of the Jujjitsu-Judo fight the jujijtui advocates will try to prove their they are superior even under Judo rules At least Kimura and Yoshida obliged the first two times around

09-09-2002, 11:49 AM	#4 (permalink)
doubleouch Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: portland, or Posts: 418 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Man, I remember when this forum was all about Royce and Gracie JJ. Now Royce looses a contraversial decision and no one seems to care. How times have changed!

09-09-2002, 01:04 PM	#5 (permalink)
Szczepankiewicz Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Meridian, ID, USA Posts: 4,109 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	There is still a small amount of outrage. But I think reality has caught up with the forum and thanks to the Gracies, everyone's scope has expanded tremendously. SZ

09-09-2002, 02:20 PM	#6 (permalink)
Mr. Miyagi Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 758 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Because there are tons of guys who could destroy both of those guys under the same rules. That's why noone seems to care. People are sick of seeing weird matches occur under Gracie rules. Pride is a MMA organization with it's own rules, why do they have to have matches like this on their card?

09-12-2002, 02:10 PM	#10 (permalink)
Mr. Miyagi Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 758 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	OK, fine. He got screwed. But matches like this are unnecessary for an organization with shows as big as PRIDE. So many juijitsu black belts would have tapped those two guys, no problem. I bet even little Royler could tap them without breaking a sweat.

09-12-2002, 05:46 PM	#11 (permalink)
ultim8jj Novice Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sheffield, UK Posts: 3 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mr. Miyagi - where did you hear it was under Gracie rules?!?!?!?! The rules where there for the Judoka to make it a bit fairer - Who really needed the rules imposed more? Royce or Yoshida? Think boy, think!

09-13-2002, 05:38 PM	#12 (permalink)
Mr. Miyagi Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 758 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I never said it was Gracie rules. I didn't like the rules and I think most people didn't, I was criticising the match, not the competitors. As I said before there are so many grapplers that would destroy both of them under the same rules, and Pride is supposed to be a fighting organization for high profile champions. Even so, I don't think the rules were to protect the judoka either, it's not as if Royce was going to outbox him or ground-n-pound him.

09-14-2002, 04:06 PM	#14 (permalink)
Mr. Miyagi Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 758 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Royce might have won in the early UFC's against strikers but it is pretty irrelevant at this point. He does not benefit from striking (and in this case Yoshida doesn't either). I just think that match shouldn't have happened. So you're club is friends with Royce, that's just what I figured. He asked for special rules against Wallid, Takada, and Sakuraba. If Saku were not allowed to strike against him (and Saku is not a good striker either) that match could go on forever. I'm sure someone like Wallid (and most other black belts) would easily have destroyed Royce or Yoshida under the same rules. And finally, yes, the Gracies don't fight anymore because they would lose, and the ones that try do lose.

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