Question? Why mixed Martial Arts???????? - Page 2

09-27-2002, 02:38 PM

You beat me to it.

crazyjoe380 · 09-27-2002, 02:42 PM

I DONT CARE WHAT STYLES ANYONE HAS.. I'M STICKING TO MUAY THAI AND JIU JITSU..

Mr. Miyagi · 09-27-2002, 08:07 PM

JMD, are you saying that you could stop a good collegiate wrestler from taking you down using your "counters"? LOL.
Nah, they will shoot in so quick, pick you up, and dump you hard.

A friend of mine in college was on the wrestling team, he weighed around 165. One day a big football player who had been antagonizing him all year picked a fight with him, this guy was at least 240. It didn't matter, my friend picked him up and dumped him. Being a pure wrestler he left him there and got back up. The football player arose again and attacked him. My friend simply picked him back up and slammed him again but this time the football player's head hit a doorway very hard and there was blood everywhere. He lay still until help arrived. He went to the hospital and was treated; got stitches. Not that the football player is a great striker or fighter, but it was amazing how easily my friend took him down twice in about ten seconds. I can't imagine someone stopping a good collegiate wrestler (which my friend was not, he was ok) from dropping them unless they are trained like Pat Militech or someone like that. I am a blue belt and I know I could never stop him from taking me down, but at least I would have him in my guard from there.

BoarSpear · 02-26-2006, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MmaFighter152

Why dont you challenge a grappler then and see what happens! Im sure you are a good striker, but if you dont know how to grapple then you are not a good fighter. By accident, or by design, fights end up on the ground. Besides, grapplers are the ones who have the best chance to avoid being taken down. Im not trying to diss you or your art in any way but dont be so naive.

Who the

do you think youre talking to? this thread has been dead since 09-27-2002 and you quote someone and start telling them how to train?

BoarSpear · 02-26-2006, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MmaFighter152

Im trying to make a point.

that youre a dumbass bjj/mt nut with no respect for the TMA's? We got it, now STFU

BoarSpear · 02-26-2006, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MmaFighter152

F U pu**y!

AWWWW did i hurt your feelings? ...sniff...sniff.....WHAAAAA ...

.....

jmd161 · 02-26-2006, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MmaFighter152

Why dont you challenge a grappler then and see what happens! Im sure you are a good striker, but if you dont know how to grapple then you are not a good fighter. By accident, or by design, fights end up on the ground. Besides, grapplers are the ones who have the best chance to avoid being taken down. Im not trying to diss you or your art in any way but dont be so naive.

MmaFighter,

I have rolled with grapplers, how do you think i got the knowledge to know what i'm talking about?!?!?! Ha Ha Ha naive???

My friend i'm far from naive, i've spent over 23 yrs in martial arts. I've boxed,wrestled,done TMA from both JMA and CMA. I currently work with BJJ,MMA,Muay Thai and TMA ppl on a regular basis.

So, i don't think you understand my experience, it's not from reading forums or websites, it's all hands on.

jeff

danfaggella · 02-27-2006, 12:50 AM

Yes, I suppose Balck Tiger is in MMA. I like to think of MMA as meaning "mixed martial arts," literally. I don't like to think that "mma" should only include sportive forms of fighting, though these work in the ring, "mma" in its name means much more than that, and I think for me, MMA is just the exploration or martial philosophy, principles, and techniques, for self-defence, dicipline, and a great passion in life, as well as fun.

I suppose "MMA fighting" nowadays pretty much means BJJ/MT/boxing, which is fitting for competition because its not good to allow eye gouges/groin attacks/ect... in competition, but the TV term MMA and the literal term are different. Both are cool, but for me the options are greater and the posibilities are more varied than in the TV term. TV MMA has its merits, both in analyzing martial art and in entertainment, however, if you get into MMA you obviously dont have to let go of Black Tiger, even if you compete in an NHB fashion, your techniques/principles/ect... will carry through and your exploration of traditional and modern martial arts will just grow more perspective.

Tant01 · 02-27-2006, 01:43 AM

Nice to read you here again Jeff... been a while, eh...?

Don't be a stranger... Some of us newer guys could learn things from you.

jmd161 · 02-27-2006, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tant01

Nice to read you here again Jeff... been a while, eh...?

Don't be a stranger... Some of us newer guys could learn things from you.

Yeah, it's been a long time since i've roamed this place. Thanks for the kind words, just always willing to share my experiences. There have been so many over the yrs too.

jeff

jmd161 · 02-27-2006, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danfaggella

Yes, I suppose Balck Tiger is in MMA. I like to think of MMA as meaning "mixed martial arts," literally. I don't like to think that "mma" should only include sportive forms of fighting, though these work in the ring, "mma" in its name means much more than that, and I think for me, MMA is just the exploration or martial philosophy, principles, and techniques, for self-defence, dicipline, and a great passion in life, as well as fun.

I suppose "MMA fighting" nowadays pretty much means BJJ/MT/boxing, which is fitting for competition because its not good to allow eye gouges/groin attacks/ect... in competition, but the TV term MMA and the literal term are different. Both are cool, but for me the options are greater and the posibilities are more varied than in the TV term. TV MMA has its merits, both in analyzing martial art and in entertainment, however, if you get into MMA you obviously dont have to let go of Black Tiger, even if you compete in an NHB fashion, your techniques/principles/ect... will carry through and your exploration of traditional and modern martial arts will just grow more perspective.

The thing that most don't realise is, that CMA itself is MMA mixed martial arts. It's that it's in most cases mixed chinese arts. I could easily use my Black Tiger in any ring,cage, NHB event etc... Once you know techniques,principles,and body movement, it's a world opening up to you.

The problem is that what helped CMA to last so long, is what it has lost the most.

[size=4]Fighting!![/color]

The only way to be a fighter is through trial and error. If you're not using it, how can you make it work. It's like a pilot learning to fly without actual flying time or a flight simulator, it's not going to work.

jeff

jmd161 · 02-27-2006, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Miyagi

JMD, are you saying that you could stop a good collegiate wrestler from taking you down using your "counters"? LOL.
Nah, they will shoot in so quick, pick you up, and dump you hard.

A friend of mine in college was on the wrestling team, he weighed around 165. One day a big football player who had been antagonizing him all year picked a fight with him, this guy was at least 240. It didn't matter, my friend picked him up and dumped him. Being a pure wrestler he left him there and got back up. The football player arose again and attacked him. My friend simply picked him back up and slammed him again but this time the football player's head hit a doorway very hard and there was blood everywhere. He lay still until help arrived. He went to the hospital and was treated; got stitches. Not that the football player is a great striker or fighter, but it was amazing how easily my friend took him down twice in about ten seconds. I can't imagine someone stopping a good collegiate wrestler (which my friend was not, he was ok) from dropping them unless they are trained like Pat Militech or someone like that. I am a blue belt and I know I could never stop him from taking me down, but at least I would have him in my guard from there.

I'm saying exactly what i said.

I said by grabing my clothing "noone is going to take me down inclose" It doesn't mater who belives this or not. Because a few people on a forum say it can't be done, that means it can't be done?

Cmon!

Half the people on forums train right there, on the internet in forums, that's where their knowledge comes from. I don't claim to be the baddest or even a bad man, but i know "MY" strengths and "MY" weeknesses, that's half the battle right there.

I've rolled with many people from Bjj black,purple,and blue belts to MMA trainers to my sifu, who by the way has only done Black Tiger his whole life. The only person i've never been able to tap is my sifu. I've been tapped by others, but i've also tapped them. I went to a BJJ school and rolled with a few purple and the black belt instructors, the only person that tapped me was the head instructor. The comment they all had to say about me was "I have a solid base" my base comes from my Black Tiger.

It's the teacher that makes the difference, not the art. If you have a teacher that understands movement, and the body, he can open up so much to you, no matter what art you train. That what's needed in martial arts GREAT TEACHERS.

jeff

johnzag · 02-27-2006, 04:09 AM

Its an interesting to read so many people coming aout and saying this person couldn't take me down .. strikers are betterthan grapplers etc.

I think that the first thing that you learn as a martial artist is that there is always someone else who is better and that everyone has something they can teach you from a the novice to the master.

I think with regards to this topic it's important for everyone to get a well rounded view of the martial arts world. Although I think to do this properly you need to atleast reach a black belt level in one discipline. This will atleast allow you to appreciate the holes in your armour and seek out the arts/teachers who can help you become a great fighter/martial artist.

Personally having spent 8 years doing Karate I found that there was a significant amount of holes in my game. For the past 5 years I have been training in the filipino arts and have been over to the philippines twice. As a whole the filipino styles i have ahd a chance to train in have been so much better in preparing me for any range of attack than my karate training ever was.

Added into the mix I have done some limited training in Bando and traditional Jiu-Jitsu all of which provided me with a greater insight. All martial arts can teach you something some more than others. But they all have their place. I will say this in closing however BJJ gets a good rap but honestly I think it has developed into a ring art... how effective it would be in the street i don't know. Like some said going to the ground can be the worst thing to do in a lot of cases.

bigboywasim · 02-27-2006, 12:46 PM

I think a fight between a pure striker and a pure grappler the gappler will win. It is way more difficult for the striker to keep the game standing. However when the grappler is in range the striker is on the floor. I didn't really have much respect for wrestlers before I started to study martial arts because I didn't realize how effective wrestling can be. Now I do wrestling with BJJ for my ground game. I have as much respect for grappling as for striking. My cousin got in a fight once with my best friend. My best friend was a high school wrestler and my cousin was twice his size. My best friend picked him up a slammed him once only and that was on grass as well. My cousin couldn't even get back up. Now my cousin takes wrestling as well and has a lot of respect for it.

Check this out and I think you guys will agree with me about grappling vs striking.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...&q=bjj+kung+fu

danfaggella · 02-28-2006, 05:19 PM

I must agree that a strait grappler can usually overwhelm a strike and get to the clinch range, and then go to the ground a finish the fight. Many martial artists beleive "fighting" to be two men standing exchanging blows. However, that free-moving phase carries few of its skills into clinching, and even fewer into ground fighting, these are different phases of mono-a-mono combat that people must understand.

However, it is also true that many other things can work thier way into fighting. Weapons, multiple attackers, knowing when to run, ect... These factors must also be understood at least in a basic extent in order to be a rounded martial artist.

Also, BJJ is mostly a ring art. It is the premere ring art, the most dominating force in NHB-tpye competition worldwide. Though I certainly wouldn't pull gaurd on a guy and his two buddies when I'm getting mugged, the concepts have obviously proven to be underestimated by most martial artists and the wrestling-like grappling combined with a wide range of positional principals, ground striking, and chokes/joint attacks, BJJ undoubtably has merits, and can be worked in with any other martial art to make someone a bit more rounded. Even the knowledge of simple ground positioning and a few submissions makes that scramble on the floor make a lot more sence.

02-27-2006, 01:43 AM	#24 (permalink)
Tant01 Humble Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Northern Ca. USA Posts: 5,123 Groans: 0 Groaned at 14 Times in 9 Posts	Nice to read you here again Jeff... been a while, eh...? Don't be a stranger... Some of us newer guys could learn things from you. __________________ "In all countries where personal freedom is valued, however much each individual may rely on legal redress, the right of each to carry arms - and these the best and the sharpest - for his own protection in case of extremity, is a right of nature indelible and irrepressible, and the more it is sought to be repressed the more it will recur." James Paterson

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes	Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode	Rate This Thread:

09-27-2002, 02:38 PM	#16 (permalink)
Bri Thai Guest Posts: n/a	You beat me to it.

09-27-2002, 02:42 PM	#17 (permalink)
crazyjoe380 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,368 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I DONT CARE WHAT STYLES ANYONE HAS.. I'M STICKING TO MUAY THAI AND JIU JITSU..

09-27-2002, 08:07 PM	#18 (permalink)
Mr. Miyagi Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 719 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	JMD, are you saying that you could stop a good collegiate wrestler from taking you down using your "counters"? LOL. Nah, they will shoot in so quick, pick you up, and dump you hard. A friend of mine in college was on the wrestling team, he weighed around 165. One day a big football player who had been antagonizing him all year picked a fight with him, this guy was at least 240. It didn't matter, my friend picked him up and dumped him. Being a pure wrestler he left him there and got back up. The football player arose again and attacked him. My friend simply picked him back up and slammed him again but this time the football player's head hit a doorway very hard and there was blood everywhere. He lay still until help arrived. He went to the hospital and was treated; got stitches. Not that the football player is a great striker or fighter, but it was amazing how easily my friend took him down twice in about ten seconds. I can't imagine someone stopping a good collegiate wrestler (which my friend was not, he was ok) from dropping them unless they are trained like Pat Militech or someone like that. I am a blue belt and I know I could never stop him from taking me down, but at least I would have him in my guard from there.

02-27-2006, 12:50 AM	#23 (permalink)
danfaggella Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kingston RI Posts: 1,089 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Yes, I suppose Balck Tiger is in MMA. I like to think of MMA as meaning "mixed martial arts," literally. I don't like to think that "mma" should only include sportive forms of fighting, though these work in the ring, "mma" in its name means much more than that, and I think for me, MMA is just the exploration or martial philosophy, principles, and techniques, for self-defence, dicipline, and a great passion in life, as well as fun. I suppose "MMA fighting" nowadays pretty much means BJJ/MT/boxing, which is fitting for competition because its not good to allow eye gouges/groin attacks/ect... in competition, but the TV term MMA and the literal term are different. Both are cool, but for me the options are greater and the posibilities are more varied than in the TV term. TV MMA has its merits, both in analyzing martial art and in entertainment, however, if you get into MMA you obviously dont have to let go of Black Tiger, even if you compete in an NHB fashion, your techniques/principles/ect... will carry through and your exploration of traditional and modern martial arts will just grow more perspective.

02-27-2006, 04:09 AM	#28 (permalink)
johnzag Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 59 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Its an interesting to read so many people coming aout and saying this person couldn't take me down .. strikers are betterthan grapplers etc. I think that the first thing that you learn as a martial artist is that there is always someone else who is better and that everyone has something they can teach you from a the novice to the master. I think with regards to this topic it's important for everyone to get a well rounded view of the martial arts world. Although I think to do this properly you need to atleast reach a black belt level in one discipline. This will atleast allow you to appreciate the holes in your armour and seek out the arts/teachers who can help you become a great fighter/martial artist. Personally having spent 8 years doing Karate I found that there was a significant amount of holes in my game. For the past 5 years I have been training in the filipino arts and have been over to the philippines twice. As a whole the filipino styles i have ahd a chance to train in have been so much better in preparing me for any range of attack than my karate training ever was. Added into the mix I have done some limited training in Bando and traditional Jiu-Jitsu all of which provided me with a greater insight. All martial arts can teach you something some more than others. But they all have their place. I will say this in closing however BJJ gets a good rap but honestly I think it has developed into a ring art... how effective it would be in the street i don't know. Like some said going to the ground can be the worst thing to do in a lot of cases.

02-27-2006, 12:46 PM	#29 (permalink)
bigboywasim Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: California, Sacramento Posts: 392 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I think a fight between a pure striker and a pure grappler the gappler will win. It is way more difficult for the striker to keep the game standing. However when the grappler is in range the striker is on the floor. I didn't really have much respect for wrestlers before I started to study martial arts because I didn't realize how effective wrestling can be. Now I do wrestling with BJJ for my ground game. I have as much respect for grappling as for striking. My cousin got in a fight once with my best friend. My best friend was a high school wrestler and my cousin was twice his size. My best friend picked him up a slammed him once only and that was on grass as well. My cousin couldn't even get back up. Now my cousin takes wrestling as well and has a lot of respect for it. Check this out and I think you guys will agree with me about grappling vs striking. http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...&q=bjj+kung+fu

02-28-2006, 05:19 PM	#30 (permalink)
danfaggella Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kingston RI Posts: 1,089 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I must agree that a strait grappler can usually overwhelm a strike and get to the clinch range, and then go to the ground a finish the fight. Many martial artists beleive "fighting" to be two men standing exchanging blows. However, that free-moving phase carries few of its skills into clinching, and even fewer into ground fighting, these are different phases of mono-a-mono combat that people must understand. However, it is also true that many other things can work thier way into fighting. Weapons, multiple attackers, knowing when to run, ect... These factors must also be understood at least in a basic extent in order to be a rounded martial artist. Also, BJJ is mostly a ring art. It is the premere ring art, the most dominating force in NHB-tpye competition worldwide. Though I certainly wouldn't pull gaurd on a guy and his two buddies when I'm getting mugged, the concepts have obviously proven to be underestimated by most martial artists and the wrestling-like grappling combined with a wide range of positional principals, ground striking, and chokes/joint attacks, BJJ undoubtably has merits, and can be worked in with any other martial art to make someone a bit more rounded. Even the knowledge of simple ground positioning and a few submissions makes that scramble on the floor make a lot more sence.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)