Is there controversy with the mixed martial artist and the kung fu fighters?

**crazyjoe380** · 09-27-2002, 02:08 PM

ooh yes this could be good...

what's the problem why does kung fu see mixed martial arts as a crappy way of fighting?

Bri Thai · 09-28-2002, 05:21 AM

Because they're jealous of the way MMA guys wipe the floor with them perhaps?

**Ryu (JKD?)** · 09-28-2002, 11:10 AM

I hang around at kungfuonline.com and quite a lot of people there do not think it's a crappy way of fighting. In fact, many KF people are cross training in BJJ over there. Go there and ask them yourself.

Ryu

**crazyjoe380** · 10-01-2002, 03:02 PM

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHH

WHAT UP KUNG FOOLS? NO COME BACK.. I KNOW YOU AINT GONNA LET THESE MIX MARTIAL ARTIST DISS YOUR STYLE LIKE THAT...

*INSTIGATES*

*GRABS SOME POP CORN*

*WAITS FOR THE ACTION*

**jmd161** · 10-01-2002, 10:59 PM

First things first.

I've never in my life heard a karate or kung fu person say that MMA"s was a crappy way of fighting or anything close to that.

I've never in my life heard a karate or kung fu person say that Bjj was a crappy way of fighting or anything close to that.

I've heard them say that they felt they could beat some of those guys ,but never heard them say they could beat all or anything close to that.

I've studied kung fu for about 17yrs and karate for 4yrs.I boxed for a few as well as wrestled all before kung fu.

Do i feel i can beat some MMA"s and Bjj guys? Yes!!!

Why? because i have already.

Do i feel i can beat them all? Hell No!!!

Why? Nobody can beat everyone they face.
I'm sure i've faced some good MMA's and Bjj people ,but i'm sure i have'nt faced any very good or great ones yet.

I'm planning on going to a few MMA"s and Bjj schools down here in Miami to get to know some people.So i can work on fighting a great grappler ,and they can work on fighting a pretty good striker.
Just training though!
I'm not into that challange stuff although i won't back down from a threat either.

Infact alot of kung fu people as well as karate people are kinda scared abot facing a MMA's or Bjj person.They have a lot of respect for them.Most kung fu and karate people don't prepare for facing a person that can grapple.

Everyone points to UFC,Pride,and NHB where was everone before then?If MMA's or Bjj was the best in the world would'nt everyone do them?

It's like Marc Animal Mac Young said everytime something comes on the sene that beats the others everyone jumps on it.It only works cause people had stop preparing for grappling.Grappling is not new it was around back in acient china.What happend was great strikers were able to keep grapplers away so most turned to striking.When that happend people worked on striking as striking got better that's all they would work on was facing another striker.

So now they pay for their mistakes they did'nt prepare for the ground because they felt they would never end up there.My Sifu makes us use Chin Na a lot not just the few techniques you see but the actual style.It has groundfighting as well as punches ,and kicks.It's not new in our style it has always been taught in Black Tiger.It's just that Black Tiger is a very rare style.

There are only about 6-8 people in the world that teach the style of Black Tiger i'm learning.5 are students of my Sifu the current Grandmaster ,and the others are his brothers from the Hong Kong school he learned in.

I as well as everyone i know respect MMA's and Bjj it's just that MMA's and Bjj people don't respect us.It's cool with me because i know better than to think that kung fu beats all.I just laugh when i hear MMA's and Bjj people say kung fu su(ks.Because if they really knew about other arts they would never say anything like that.I have a guy at work that told me to my face kung fu su(ks and he don't respect none of us because it's a dance.

He bragged about his MMA"s training and even beat a guy at my job who boxes up very bad at a near gym.I'm not gonna sit here and say what happened when we went at it together.I will say this he still thinks most kung fu su(ks ,but thinks Black Tiger is different than most kung fu.We are very good friends now and i show him different techniques now and then.

jmd161

P.S. Everything works well when people are not use to seeing it.Case in point the St.Louis Rams. once someone finds a way to counter it ie..The New England Patriots.Everyone jumps on that bandwagon ie The NFL.Thus the Rams 0-4 start they are'nt any worse than last year it's just that teams know how to counter their technique now.

**AKF** · 10-02-2002, 05:28 AM

I don't think that kung fu sucks because I don't know anything about it. I do agree with you that on this board, very often you are faced with a 'if it's not BJJ it's crap' mentality, and I disagree with that.

The one thing that you simply must be humble on, however is that every karate and kung fu 'expert' who has ever walked into a MMA arena (at least that I have seen) has been destroyed. I think that's where a lot of people on this board get there opinion from. You may disagree, but you have to respect there reasoning.

Last point... BJJ is the most technically difficult martial art I have ever been a part of. It takes weeks sometimes to learn the most basic of positions, sweeps etc. When you talk about your kung fu training and incorporating ground work (Chin Na), if you are equating that to being able to hold your own on the ground with a good BJJ guy you are dead wrong. As much as the limited striking BJJ offers (standing) wouldn't hold up against you, your ground work (regardless of how extensive it might be) would never even put you in the same ballpark as a BJJ person.

One more thing, and I mean this as a sincere question. The world of fighting, in terms of stand-up striking, is dominated by kickboxers and tai boxers. Why do you feel that EVERYONE who fights in MMA as a striker as gone that route. If kung fu is as effective as you proclaim (and I really am being sincere here, not combative) why hasn't ANYONE AT ALL decided to train in that system in order to compete?

**yenhoi** · 10-02-2002, 10:11 AM

quote AKF:

decided to train in that system in order to compete?

-

This is the main reason you dont see "kung-fu guys" competing or winning UFC etc. In a sports context, you must train for THAT sports context.

Most "kung-fu guy" schools, do not teach in a sports, UFC, environment, or mindset - most teach in a cardio kickboxing or yoga type environment and mindset - focus on forms, technical ability, what ifs, drills, etc, instead of conditioning, reaction, sparring, attributes, etc.

Athletic-ness must be trained.

Also, what do you mean exactly by kung-fu? Just people who train a Chinese "style" in a so-called "traditional" manner? If so, then check out the San Shou guys, or dudes from pride, etc. Those are full-contact, 'NHB' sports competitions with similar rules as the UFC and other western sports events. Most western "kung-fu" schools do not train in a "traditional" manner, they train in a commercialized, "mcdojo" or "mckwoon" manner, and that is not what prepares people for full-contact sports like cage duels.

You should test your 'fighting ability' and the effectiveness of your training and constantly be questioning your training methods. This does not mean you have to compete in big-ticket, beer guzzling, casino events. It does mean the right mindset or intent, and recognition of your training goals, and actually training with and against resisiting partners, as well as people from other schools and backgrounds.

It is always the individual over the style, training time over talking time, and attribute over technique.

**crazyjoe380** · 10-02-2002, 10:56 AM

DAMMMMMNNN!!

MMA 2

KUNG FU 1

MMA IS LEADING..

WILL KUNG FU MAKE A COME BACK?

*GRABS SOME JUICE*

*WAITS FOR BLACK TIGER*

**yenhoi** · 10-02-2002, 11:43 AM

my post counts for kung fu

**crazyjoe380** · 10-02-2002, 12:04 PM

U HAVE TO POST SOMETHING ABOUT KUNG FU AGAINST MMA ^^^

VOTES STAY THE SAME

**yenhoi** · 10-02-2002, 12:30 PM

MMA guys train unrealistically for the street.

Kung fu has eye gouges and dim mak.

**AKF** · 10-02-2002, 12:33 PM

yenhoi, thanks for the reply. Very well said.

I think some of my concern is based around what you seemed to be referring to (if I'm wrong, then don't mind me). MOST kung fu folks don't train for the purposes of competition, agreed. But the ones who have, were beaten VERY badly in NHB events. If kung fu is such a dominant art (at least in terms of striking), why didn't/hasn't or don't the kung fu people do well in MMA?

And please... don't water this down into a stupid argument. I have already posted that I don't know much about kung fu and would like to learn. My posts are merely questions.

**crazyjoe380** · 10-02-2002, 12:34 PM

Nmmmm not a good argument like jmd616. hes talking about styles and he has experiance, he does kung fu and he sounds good at it. he has his beliefs and that's good. comparing your explination is like saying...

judo has throws and wrestling has take downs..

dont make sense... it's not an argument it's a diffrence in styles but no reasoning..

BUT AK DOES MAKE A POINT..

DIDNT SEE AK'S POST

KUNG FU 2

MMA 2

**AKF** · 10-02-2002, 12:37 PM

yenhoi,

In your opinion, what is unrealistic about people who train for MMA with regard to the streets?

And by the way -- eye gouges, groin strikes and biting are part of ANYBODY'S street fighting arsenal, you don't have to be trained in kung fu to use them.