Kyokushin Karate or Kickboxing - Page 2

crazyjoe380 · 10-11-2002, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by conach
Igor Vovchanchyn beating everyone with just boxing, Joe??

Vovchanchyn got submitted by "Zen Machine" Mario Sperry in Pride 17... now you explain me that!!!

By the way, Igor also does Combat Sambo, so he's not only a kickboxer.

Thanx for the advice on boxing, Joe. I will keep it in mind.

But I have another question to all... Kyokushin's kicking approaches (but never matches) Muay Thai in some way. Kicks to the legs are very common, and also some effective kicking is present in the style. And I mean true knockout kicking. This is what has me thinking. There's no kicking to the legs in Kickboxing. Of course the boxing technique present in KB is important to consider, but what about kicks?? I want to make a real good decision.

And no... I can't practice both of them, just one.

Thanx to all for the posts... Later

see how many fighting he wins with BOXING SKILLS

you freakin count them.

http://www.sherdog.com/videos/vovcha...chynvideo.shtm

then count the times he wins with kicks..

the whole point im making is that having boxing skills are good for fighting.. you guys twisted my s.hit up so bad..

smart assess hahahaha

your welcome by the way.. but it's how you use the skills you have too.. some guys are just naturals.. damn they are good!! i want to fight just as well.. one day..

conach · 10-11-2002, 12:55 PM

Thanx for your advice and time, Blaster...

StraightBlaster · 10-12-2002, 02:26 AM

Hey joe, if you just said punching and not boxing we could have skipped the confusion.

I agree with you completely. The two things you need to be considered a good fighter in my mind is wrestling skills and punching skills. Submission, kicks, knees, elbos, ect are all nice but without basic knowledge of takedowns, takedown defense, position work, punching, and punch defense your going to be in trouble.

crazyjoe380 · 10-15-2002, 07:22 PM

LOL ^^^

TRUE TRUE..

mushinmaster · 10-16-2002, 08:09 AM

Personally, I think western kick boxing sucks, too many rules. I'd do kyokushinkai if I were you. Bare knuckle karate is better than western kickboxing in my book. I'd seek out MT if I were you, even if you have to go out of your way. I don't really think western kickboxing is worth the time.

Or just do boxing. Boxing is better than western kickboxing. There's always a boxing gym wherever you are.

10-16-2002, 12:58 PM

How can western kickboxing suffer from "too many rules", when the art you recommend don't allow punching to the head? And striking to the head has got to be the most common attack (and, therefore, necessary defence) in fighting?

crazyjoe380 · 10-16-2002, 03:21 PM

yes ..

western style boxing is .. TODAYS BOXING..

you learn in Muay thai how to kNEE the body you just
"AJUST" the style to aim for vital parts..

like the Balls... Eyes... Kidneys.. etc..

western boxing is just boxing used in this side of the continent.. not in asia.. they have their own passtimes..

mushinmaster · 10-18-2002, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bri Thai
How can western kickboxing suffer from "too many rules", when the art you recommend don't allow punching to the head? And striking to the head has got to be the most common attack (and, therefore, necessary defence) in fighting?

says who?

conach · 10-19-2002, 12:47 AM

A punch can be blocked/ducked, so it depends on the individual.

In Kyokushinkai u kick to the legs, like in Muay Thai. Low kicks are part of the training. So Kyokushin is probably my ticket because of its similarities with MT. It may not have boxing type punching, but it has them as well.

I have to be honest with you guys, low kicks are painful... A punch can be terminating. So is a low kick...

StraightBlaster · 10-19-2002, 04:11 AM

mushinmaster,

Punches to the head are the most common attack in fighting. Its because punching is a natural way for humans to hurt each other so they just do it wether they have training or not. Even monkeys ball up thier fists and whack each other with em.

10-19-2002, 09:52 AM

I don't know about monkey's..... but punching is NOT a natrual way to use your hands in a fight. Hands are for gripping. Men have adapted their use merely because the knuckle side initially appears hard.

But it is false economy. Unprotected hands get broken all the time in fighting. even on occasions with gloves on.

StraightBlaster · 10-19-2002, 09:07 PM

All humans punch in a fight without training. You don't need to be taught to punch, you just do it on instinct. Yes hands break, that doesn't change the fact its a natural thing to do. People also have a natural instinct to kick and wrestle. Elbos, palm strikes, ridge hands ect are not natural and not done by untrained fighters.

Anyone who has seen a couple street fights know that the most common attack used in these is punching. About your comment about gripping, street fights also allmost allways include crude clinching and wrestling. Grabbing is another natural thing people do in fights. Its the same in every country, its not because we have boxing here. People fight the same all over the world.

Two year old children who have never seen violence of any kind will punch out of anger. Check out preschool, lots of punching going on in there.

10-20-2002, 11:24 AM

I think you're missing out one relevant factor. Our culture is SURROUNDED by images connecting the punch to fighting. It is mainly due to boxing and Martial Arts films. I'm not so sure that tiny kids naturally punch at all, until they are exposed to the images.

In Britain of the very early 1970's you would not see people kicking each other until the Kung Fu film boom. Seeing all those images kick-started (pardon the awful pun) the public into putting the boot in.

I never said punching wasn't very commonplace - I said it wasn't "natural".

Einherjar · 10-20-2002, 11:38 AM

I agree with Bri Thai. Had our hands been designed for punching, we wouldn't have so many tiny, fragile bones in our hands. We would have thick wrists (not to get badly twisted), large bones (like the shin or the humerus) and very heavy, calloused tissue all over them. And, of course, no fingers to get broken under the tremendous impact.

Come to think of it, it seems to me that horse hoofs are far better prepared for punching than our small, delicate fists.

Sean J · 10-20-2002, 01:30 PM

Anyway, what always disturbs me about so-called bare-knuckle-karate (normally meaning Kyukushinkai-Knock-Down Rules) is the theoretical possibillity of scoring points with no-contact punches to the face. I have never seen this actually happen. Probably because normally a body punch would come back full contact.

so they usually do not care much about covering the face rather than holding the arms to cover for roundhouse kicks.

For somebody, who is a really good high-kicker this may be a usefull way to spar or fight in tournaments. If not kick-boxing rules may make more sense. In my opinion sparring according to any kind of rules tends to develop some kind of bad habits that put you in danger in a fight.

10-15-2002, 07:22 PM	#19 (permalink)
crazyjoe380 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,368 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	LOL ^^^ TRUE TRUE.. __________________

10-16-2002, 08:09 AM	#20 (permalink)
mushinmaster Novice Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: SGF, NY Posts: 402 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Personally, I think western kick boxing sucks, too many rules. I'd do kyokushinkai if I were you. Bare knuckle karate is better than western kickboxing in my book. I'd seek out MT if I were you, even if you have to go out of your way. I don't really think western kickboxing is worth the time. Or just do boxing. Boxing is better than western kickboxing. There's always a boxing gym wherever you are. __________________ Alex Bedard http://www.geocities.com/mushinmaster

10-16-2002, 03:21 PM	#22 (permalink)
crazyjoe380 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,368 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	yes .. western style boxing is .. TODAYS BOXING.. you learn in Muay thai how to kNEE the body you just "AJUST" the style to aim for vital parts.. like the Balls... Eyes... Kidneys.. etc.. western boxing is just boxing used in this side of the continent.. not in asia.. they have their own passtimes.. __________________

10-20-2002, 01:30 PM	#30 (permalink)
Sean J Novice Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 79 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Anyway, what always disturbs me about so-called bare-knuckle-karate (normally meaning Kyukushinkai-Knock-Down Rules) is the theoretical possibillity of scoring points with no-contact punches to the face. I have never seen this actually happen. Probably because normally a body punch would come back full contact. so they usually do not care much about covering the face rather than holding the arms to cover for roundhouse kicks. For somebody, who is a really good high-kicker this may be a usefull way to spar or fight in tournaments. If not kick-boxing rules may make more sense. In my opinion sparring according to any kind of rules tends to develop some kind of bad habits that put you in danger in a fight. __________________ Sean J

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10-11-2002, 12:55 PM	#17 (permalink)
conach Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Venezuela Posts: 72 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanx for your advice and time, Blaster...

10-12-2002, 02:26 AM	#18 (permalink)
StraightBlaster Novice Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 50 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hey joe, if you just said punching and not boxing we could have skipped the confusion. I agree with you completely. The two things you need to be considered a good fighter in my mind is wrestling skills and punching skills. Submission, kicks, knees, elbos, ect are all nice but without basic knowledge of takedowns, takedown defense, position work, punching, and punch defense your going to be in trouble.

10-16-2002, 12:58 PM	#21 (permalink)
Bri Thai Guest Posts: n/a	How can western kickboxing suffer from "too many rules", when the art you recommend don't allow punching to the head? And striking to the head has got to be the most common attack (and, therefore, necessary defence) in fighting?

10-19-2002, 12:47 AM	#24 (permalink)
conach Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Venezuela Posts: 72 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	A punch can be blocked/ducked, so it depends on the individual. In Kyokushinkai u kick to the legs, like in Muay Thai. Low kicks are part of the training. So Kyokushin is probably my ticket because of its similarities with MT. It may not have boxing type punching, but it has them as well. I have to be honest with you guys, low kicks are painful... A punch can be terminating. So is a low kick...

10-19-2002, 04:11 AM	#25 (permalink)
StraightBlaster Novice Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 50 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	mushinmaster, Punches to the head are the most common attack in fighting. Its because punching is a natural way for humans to hurt each other so they just do it wether they have training or not. Even monkeys ball up thier fists and whack each other with em.

10-19-2002, 09:52 AM	#26 (permalink)
Bri Thai Guest Posts: n/a	I don't know about monkey's..... but punching is NOT a natrual way to use your hands in a fight. Hands are for gripping. Men have adapted their use merely because the knuckle side initially appears hard. But it is false economy. Unprotected hands get broken all the time in fighting. even on occasions with gloves on.

10-19-2002, 09:07 PM	#27 (permalink)
StraightBlaster Novice Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 50 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	All humans punch in a fight without training. You don't need to be taught to punch, you just do it on instinct. Yes hands break, that doesn't change the fact its a natural thing to do. People also have a natural instinct to kick and wrestle. Elbos, palm strikes, ridge hands ect are not natural and not done by untrained fighters. Anyone who has seen a couple street fights know that the most common attack used in these is punching. About your comment about gripping, street fights also allmost allways include crude clinching and wrestling. Grabbing is another natural thing people do in fights. Its the same in every country, its not because we have boxing here. People fight the same all over the world. Two year old children who have never seen violence of any kind will punch out of anger. Check out preschool, lots of punching going on in there.

10-20-2002, 11:24 AM	#28 (permalink)
Bri Thai Guest Posts: n/a	I think you're missing out one relevant factor. Our culture is SURROUNDED by images connecting the punch to fighting. It is mainly due to boxing and Martial Arts films. I'm not so sure that tiny kids naturally punch at all, until they are exposed to the images. In Britain of the very early 1970's you would not see people kicking each other until the Kung Fu film boom. Seeing all those images kick-started (pardon the awful pun) the public into putting the boot in. I never said punching wasn't very commonplace - I said it wasn't "natural".

10-20-2002, 11:38 AM	#29 (permalink)
Einherjar Novice Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 43 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I agree with Bri Thai. Had our hands been designed for punching, we wouldn't have so many tiny, fragile bones in our hands. We would have thick wrists (not to get badly twisted), large bones (like the shin or the humerus) and very heavy, calloused tissue all over them. And, of course, no fingers to get broken under the tremendous impact. Come to think of it, it seems to me that horse hoofs are far better prepared for punching than our small, delicate fists.

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