Why do Real Fights Often Goes to Ground?

blade_cs · 10-16-2002, 03:48 AM

I've been told by many modern instructors that many street confrontations end up on the ground (about at least... 80% of all confrontations).

Why is that? I mean, if a trained standup person vs a non-trained person fought on the street, the trained one would avoid the ground.

Do you all believe what most instructors declare?

I think that ground fighting has my disadvantages on the street because it's only one vs one; can't fight multiple opponents.

10-16-2002, 04:45 AM

People only have two legs....and when they are in the middle of an ugly and clumsy struggle with another person, especially someone grabbing and pulling/pushing.....and tripping and falling......

Well, that's why the fights end up on the floor.

Ice Phoenix · 10-16-2002, 09:20 AM

Bri Thai pretty much summed up the "why".

As for a stand-up person vs. an untrained person, the stand-up person will indeed try to "avoid" the ground, but likely have little idea of how to do so. This is due to the way a pure striker trains. They train with partners agreeing to keep "at range" to allow them to practise what they do best, striking, but won't know how to deal with someone who doesn't follow that same "game plan".

The untrained person however may realise he can't compete stand-up, so will do the logical thing and tackle or clinch.

A wrestler or grappler trains how to take someone down to the ground though, and therefore how to avoid being taken down also, so while not so good at stand-up, they're better able to keep it that way. That is until they get KO'd at least!

As for groundfighting being less attractive on "the street," that is true, but think how many fights actually occur on "the street"?

Unless you're Superman it's unlikely you'll be able to deal with multiple opponents who mean business anyway, but assuming you're a grappler interested in some strategies, there is indeed material that can be learned for 2 on 1 grappling, but of course they're only last-resort.

Sorry for writing a book!

crazyjoe380 · 10-16-2002, 10:54 AM

ok..

out of the 100,000 times i've been into a fight..

ok when you are fighting and it's out of control or it ends up being the same strenth one of you might "SLIP"

he might take you down...

someone swings and he grabs on to your hips and you lose balance..

stepping on each other feet...

an actuall knockdown and he jumps on you..

the reasons why you go on the floor is endless..

one time i remember i got into a fight and it was like ok..
lets do this. i had no time to strike him first and get the first shots.. we started even like a boxing match.. he threw a one two and he hit my chin.. i was like ok muddaflower..
he rushed in and i got his chin with just a right..

he collaps on my body.. hanging on for dear life.. and then i kneed his head and he clenched on me hard.. on my waist .. he kept trying to take me down.. i punched him in the ribs and kidneys about 30 times.. he barely let go. and when he did i gave him a round house kick to his leg and the rest of the fight he kept avoiding me and my kicks.. he was tired and i was still ready for what ever.. his homeboy jumped in and i was like what you want some to and i tryed to strike him but he was like NO!NO!NO! PUTING HIS HANDS UP... my homeboy had enough .. he said..

so i ended it there. .they dont always go to the ground but they do.. and the reasons are endless. the best thing is not to try jiu jitsu on the bottom unless you are forced on the bottom dont put yourself there.

when i get dropped i come back up or usually full mount the man and pound the shit out of him.

simple...

fool.. go out and get into some fights and find out with your own experiances.. i fought cause i was a thug before.. now i'm a business man.. that can't spell

hahahah

blade_cs · 10-16-2002, 08:46 PM

Yeah, I agree that in a fight there will be grabbing and pushing, but what if you're trained in Aikido or Hapkido?

Both those arts have very good techniques in redirecting an attack. When an untrained (Untrained because people simply can't expect to fight anyone with martial arts. Most martial artists don't start fights. And even if they're trained, they'll only have a little bit of training.) street attacker goes for a tackle, he will be immediately directed (and usually a submission hold will be applied right afterwards). And since people who pick fights don't really know how to fight, they won't really know how to tackle.

10-16-2002, 08:52 PM

Yep, Aikido and Hapkido really do kick ass. I mean, the have this wonderful theory about redirecting force and everything.........So it MUST work!

blade_cs · 10-16-2002, 10:59 PM

Then how do you argue that most fights end up on the ground? Cause a lot of those modern instructors say that in a fight, no matter you have training or not, you'd end up on the ground.

jmd161 · 10-17-2002, 01:47 AM

Like joe said there's too many reasons to name.

loss of balance,Tripped,chin check,etc........

The thing is to know what to do while down there.

Yes against multiple attackers the ground is a disadvantage ,but you can even the odds.If your quick and know what to do.Take out some knee caps or sweep everyone attacking you.Most people go down and just cover up and that ain't gonna work son.

At that instant it's all about survival do what you have to do to make it out on your own.Only 60% of fights go to the ground for one reason or another.Most end when someone hits the ground because their usually out cold.

jmd161

crazyjoe380 · 10-17-2002, 10:42 AM

lol@chin check...

we used to say that.. back in the days!!
damn that muthaflucker got chin checked!! did you see that?!

man everyone talks about styles when they are fighting..

"ohh an akido and judo and my styles"..

NO!!

I seen a karate master knocked the **** out by some crip..
ONE PUNCH!! I SEEN IT!!

dont underestimate the street fighter.. u have to be open minded.
just like when a robber has a gun under his jacket you have to assume that he has a gun..

the street fighter.. same thing.. you have to assume that he knows how to fight

jmd161 · 10-17-2002, 12:58 PM

Streetfighters are dangerous people.

They know what works and does'nt work.

Long before UFC and Pride going back about 15yrs or more there used to be a tough man tournament.Anyone was invited to fight whether you had a style or not.

You know who usually Won?

Not Muay Thai
Not Karate
Not Jiu Jitsu
Not Boxing
Not Kung Fu
Not TKD

It was the streetfighters that usually beat everyone else.

There were no gloves or pads either bare fist and feet.

They got pretty bloody so the fights were made illegal we used to have alot of them here in Miami.

jmd161

crazyjoe380 · 10-17-2002, 01:14 PM

STREET FIGHTING ISNT SIZING UP LIKE MARTIAL ARTS..

IT'S RIGHT THERE AND THEN AND IF YOU AINT READY..

THEN DIE!!!

crazyjoe380 · 10-17-2002, 01:58 PM

IMAGIN A BUNCH OF TITO ORTIZ'S RUNNING AROUND READY TO BEAT YO ASS

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL...

jmd161 · 10-17-2002, 02:32 PM

joe,

It happened to me in Queens New York.

My sister and i were leaving my uncle's house headed to the train station to go back home to Brooklyn.When a mobb of about 25-30 Puerto Ricans started chasing us for no reason.They were sitting on a stoop chilling as we walked by the block on the corner they jumped up and started after us.They chased us all the way to the train station.The only thing that saved us was we had a good lead on them by us being at the corner and them down the street.

Plus my sister and i both ran track.
Thank god for being born with speed.lol

jmd161

crazyjoe380 · 10-17-2002, 03:12 PM

Tienes suerte que esos ricans no te chingaron!!

for no reason?? lol..

sickness. lucky you got away...

jmd161 · 10-17-2002, 03:21 PM

It could've been they found out about me and Maria?

She was one hell of a Chica.

Man was i crazy about that girl!!!

jmd161

10-16-2002, 03:48 AM	#1 (permalink)
blade_cs Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 74 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Why do Real Fights Often Goes to Ground? I've been told by many modern instructors that many street confrontations end up on the ground (about at least... 80% of all confrontations). Why is that? I mean, if a trained standup person vs a non-trained person fought on the street, the trained one would avoid the ground. Do you all believe what most instructors declare? I think that ground fighting has my disadvantages on the street because it's only one vs one; can't fight multiple opponents.

10-16-2002, 09:20 AM	#3 (permalink)
Ice Phoenix Novice Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 172 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Bri Thai pretty much summed up the "why". As for a stand-up person vs. an untrained person, the stand-up person will indeed try to "avoid" the ground, but likely have little idea of how to do so. This is due to the way a pure striker trains. They train with partners agreeing to keep "at range" to allow them to practise what they do best, striking, but won't know how to deal with someone who doesn't follow that same "game plan". The untrained person however may realise he can't compete stand-up, so will do the logical thing and tackle or clinch. A wrestler or grappler trains how to take someone down to the ground though, and therefore how to avoid being taken down also, so while not so good at stand-up, they're better able to keep it that way. That is until they get KO'd at least! As for groundfighting being less attractive on "the street," that is true, but think how many fights actually occur on "the street"? Unless you're Superman it's unlikely you'll be able to deal with multiple opponents who mean business anyway, but assuming you're a grappler interested in some strategies, there is indeed material that can be learned for 2 on 1 grappling, but of course they're only last-resort. Sorry for writing a book! Last edited by Ice Phoenix; 10-16-2002 at 09:24 AM.

10-16-2002, 10:54 AM	#4 (permalink)
crazyjoe380 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,368 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	ok.. out of the 100,000 times i've been into a fight.. ok when you are fighting and it's out of control or it ends up being the same strenth one of you might "SLIP" he might take you down... someone swings and he grabs on to your hips and you lose balance.. stepping on each other feet... an actuall knockdown and he jumps on you.. the reasons why you go on the floor is endless.. one time i remember i got into a fight and it was like ok.. lets do this. i had no time to strike him first and get the first shots.. we started even like a boxing match.. he threw a one two and he hit my chin.. i was like ok muddaflower.. he rushed in and i got his chin with just a right.. he collaps on my body.. hanging on for dear life.. and then i kneed his head and he clenched on me hard.. on my waist .. he kept trying to take me down.. i punched him in the ribs and kidneys about 30 times.. he barely let go. and when he did i gave him a round house kick to his leg and the rest of the fight he kept avoiding me and my kicks.. he was tired and i was still ready for what ever.. his homeboy jumped in and i was like what you want some to and i tryed to strike him but he was like NO!NO!NO! PUTING HIS HANDS UP... my homeboy had enough .. he said.. so i ended it there. .they dont always go to the ground but they do.. and the reasons are endless. the best thing is not to try jiu jitsu on the bottom unless you are forced on the bottom dont put yourself there. when i get dropped i come back up or usually full mount the man and pound the shit out of him. simple... fool.. go out and get into some fights and find out with your own experiances.. i fought cause i was a thug before.. now i'm a business man.. that can't spell hahahah __________________ Last edited by crazyjoe380; 10-16-2002 at 10:56 AM.

10-17-2002, 01:47 AM	#8 (permalink)
jmd161 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Queens,NY Posts: 187 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	There are too many to name. Like joe said there's too many reasons to name. loss of balance,Tripped,chin check,etc........ The thing is to know what to do while down there. Yes against multiple attackers the ground is a disadvantage ,but you can even the odds.If your quick and know what to do.Take out some knee caps or sweep everyone attacking you.Most people go down and just cover up and that ain't gonna work son. At that instant it's all about survival do what you have to do to make it out on your own.Only 60% of fights go to the ground for one reason or another.Most end when someone hits the ground because their usually out cold. jmd161 __________________ 少林黑虎門 To me the quest for truth is very well worth a black eye, broken nose or fat lip.-Cam McHargue

10-17-2002, 10:42 AM	#9 (permalink)
crazyjoe380 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,368 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	lol@chin check... we used to say that.. back in the days!! damn that muthaflucker got chin checked!! did you see that?! man everyone talks about styles when they are fighting.. "ohh an akido and judo and my styles".. NO!! I seen a karate master knocked the **** out by some crip.. ONE PUNCH!! I SEEN IT!! dont underestimate the street fighter.. u have to be open minded. just like when a robber has a gun under his jacket you have to assume that he has a gun.. the street fighter.. same thing.. you have to assume that he knows how to fight __________________

10-16-2002, 04:45 AM	#2 (permalink)
Bri Thai Guest Posts: n/a	People only have two legs....and when they are in the middle of an ugly and clumsy struggle with another person, especially someone grabbing and pulling/pushing.....and tripping and falling...... Well, that's why the fights end up on the floor.

10-16-2002, 08:46 PM	#5 (permalink)
blade_cs Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 74 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Yeah, I agree that in a fight there will be grabbing and pushing, but what if you're trained in Aikido or Hapkido? Both those arts have very good techniques in redirecting an attack. When an untrained (Untrained because people simply can't expect to fight anyone with martial arts. Most martial artists don't start fights. And even if they're trained, they'll only have a little* bit of training.)* street attacker goes for a tackle, he will be immediately directed (and usually a submission hold will be applied right afterwards). And since people who pick fights don't really know how to fight, they won't really know how to tackle.

10-16-2002, 08:52 PM	#6 (permalink)
Bri Thai Guest Posts: n/a	Yep, Aikido and Hapkido really do kick ass. I mean, the have this wonderful theory about redirecting force and everything.........So it MUST work!

10-16-2002, 10:59 PM	#7 (permalink)
blade_cs Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 74 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Then how do you argue that most fights end up on the ground? Cause a lot of those modern instructors say that in a fight, no matter you have training or not, you'd end up on the ground.

10-17-2002, 12:58 PM	#10 (permalink)
jmd161 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Queens,NY Posts: 187 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	True True True.............. Streetfighters are dangerous people. They know what works and does'nt work. Long before UFC and Pride going back about 15yrs or more there used to be a tough man tournament.Anyone was invited to fight whether you had a style or not. You know who usually Won? Not Muay Thai Not Karate Not Jiu Jitsu Not Boxing Not Kung Fu Not TKD It was the streetfighters that usually beat everyone else. There were no gloves or pads either bare fist and feet. They got pretty bloody so the fights were made illegal we used to have alot of them here in Miami. jmd161 __________________ 少林黑虎門 To me the quest for truth is very well worth a black eye, broken nose or fat lip.-Cam McHargue

10-17-2002, 01:14 PM	#11 (permalink)
crazyjoe380 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,368 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	STREET FIGHTING ISNT SIZING UP LIKE MARTIAL ARTS.. IT'S RIGHT THERE AND THEN AND IF YOU AINT READY.. THEN DIE!!! __________________

10-17-2002, 01:58 PM	#12 (permalink)
crazyjoe380 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,368 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	IMAGIN A BUNCH OF TITO ORTIZ'S RUNNING AROUND READY TO BEAT YO ASS LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL... __________________

10-17-2002, 02:32 PM	#13 (permalink)
jmd161 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Queens,NY Posts: 187 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Happened to me once before. joe, It happened to me in Queens New York. My sister and i were leaving my uncle's house headed to the train station to go back home to Brooklyn.When a mobb of about 25-30 Puerto Ricans started chasing us for no reason.They were sitting on a stoop chilling as we walked by the block on the corner they jumped up and started after us.They chased us all the way to the train station.The only thing that saved us was we had a good lead on them by us being at the corner and them down the street. Plus my sister and i both ran track. Thank god for being born with speed.lol jmd161 __________________ 少林黑虎門 To me the quest for truth is very well worth a black eye, broken nose or fat lip.-Cam McHargue

10-17-2002, 03:12 PM	#14 (permalink)
crazyjoe380 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,368 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Tienes suerte que esos ricans no te chingaron!! for no reason?? lol.. sickness. lucky you got away... __________________

10-17-2002, 03:21 PM	#15 (permalink)
jmd161 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Queens,NY Posts: 187 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hmm maybe you're right. It could've been they found out about me and Maria? She was one hell of a Chica. Man was i crazy about that girl!!! jmd161 __________________ 少林黑虎門 To me the quest for truth is very well worth a black eye, broken nose or fat lip.-Cam McHargue

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes	Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode	Rate This Thread: