So How Does It Usually Go Down? Forum Poll...

[Tony10]

Well, why not utilize the vast resources of the posters here and your experience? Here's the question:

Think of all the street fights (bar fights, whatever--non-sport fights) you've ever seen. If you had to say on average--if there is an average--how you think the typical fight goes down, what would it be? Hand to hand; no knives or weapons.

Do you believe the Gracie mantra that 90% of all fights go to the ground? Is there a different philosophy that you adhere to?

Two things inspired this: 1) a self-defense seminar by Dion Ricardo in which the VERY FIRST thing you are trained to do is counter the BIG RIGHT, which he correctly states is the most common weapon for your opponent. It sounds basic until you think about how many martial arts don't even address this quite simple and most common attack. 2) John Bennett mentioned on some other thread how a lot of fights usually start with the two trading blows, until one starts getting the worst of it and at that point he will attempt to clinch.

In my experience, both out and around and working at bars part-time for eight years, here's my top three

1) As John said, the blows start until one guy starts eating them at which point he will attempt to tackle the other guy. I have actually sometimes seen the tackling guy then beat the crap out of the guy even though he was off to a bad start! I've seen this most of the time.

2) Maybe it's a Chicago thing, but the "hockey fight." Grab the guys clothes with the left, pound with the right. I laugh when I see these because the counters are so numerous, yet nobody knows them apparently, so they eat punches.

3) Finally, the pushing contest which turns into a tackle. Shove, shove, shove until a clinch and then to the ground.

These are the most common but certainly not the only.

It will be interesting to see when this is done if we all end up saying the same things. Then you can ask yourself: am I trained to deal with [whatever attack scenarios we decided are most common]?

Try and keep 'em short and sweet.

[Underdog]

I spent the most part of my youth in a bad neighborhood, so I've seen quite a few fights; I'm no expert but that's my two cents:

-the most common tactics is shoving the guy and then the big right, after that there is an exchange of blows, usually haymakers from both partecipants; then the fight goes to the ground. Here is uncommon to strike while grappling, just everytime one of the guy will attempt frantically to standup and soccer-kick the other's guy head.

-another very common attack, but only here in sardinia and maybe in sicily is the headbutt. Particularly my hometown is nationally recognized for headbutts; I'm no joking, I remember a TV show that showed some guys from my neighborhood training headbutts on garage doors. While I was in the army we from inner Sardinia were feared for them, and usually there where bets for the ability of one of us to destroy the metal lockers door with them. Only some england zones guys can compare to the ability of a Sardinian with headbutts.

[Mr. Miyagi]

I've never been in one myself, but I've seen a few. Never saw any streetfighter that was any good but that's not to say there aren't any (Tank!). I'd say that the Gracie's claim is off by a bit, but 95% of fights involve a clinch of some sort. Most guys are reluctant to go to the ground, so you don't normally see takedowns or tackles. I also think that the bigger or stronger guy is the one who initiates the clinch and the smaller weaker fighter is try to win with strikes. The bigger stronger guy does not want to use unnecessary force on the smaller weaker guy, but the smaller weaker guy knows that a flurry of punches may be his best bet. Now, if the smaller weaker guy happened to be trained in grappling that's when things get interesting. I think a grappler could hold the average street troublemaker in a standing clinch without either guy getting hurt.

[Ryu (non-working password]

ROTF!!!

I was cautious about coming into this thread when I read the title "So how does it usually go down?"

LOL! Sorry
I'll be okay pretty soon.

[Ryu (non-working password]

ahem..okay I'm better.

Well this is my 2 cents from the scuffles I've been in.
A lot of times you don't know a fight is going to start. Things suddenly get out of hand. You can use your perception to see how people are standing, talking, or moving, but a lot of times things just happen.
The last fight I had with that guy who kept wanting to "prove" to me that he could counter my double leg just started as a friendly thing. Then when he couldn't defend against it, he latched onto my neck, and started thrashing away. So I was shocked the first second of the fight thinking "Is he trying to really fight me??"
So it's sometimes stuff like that where egos get too big, etc. Other times, people just hit you when you are in their face arguing. So it's best to hit first when you are inches away from someone's nose doing the "I'm a bigger rooster than you" crap.
Fighting makes you feel bad though At least in my case it does.

Ryu

[Tony10]

So, Ryu, to put it succinctly the fights you most often see/are involved in go down how (pick one or at most a top three)?

[Robbie]

3) Finally, the pushing contest which turns into a tackle. Shove, shove, shove until a clinch and then to the ground.

Thats the one I see most.I also see the others alot too.

I've seen a lot of clinches where the guys each have a single over-hook/headlock on each other.

One guy threw a pretty good knee from that position and busted the other guy's nose. The broken-nose guy was a boxer, but he never got off in that fight. Also, a broken nose wasn't a big deal to him. But there was a LOT of blood. If the fight had kept going he might have passed out after a while.

Another time, both guys lost their balance and hit the pavement. The smaller guy landed on the bottom and was on queer street from that point on.

I've never been in a real street-fight, but based on what I've seen most people do, I'm not too worried.

[Ryu (non-working password]

To put it simply into the MOST ways a fight goes down...
Two people are up in each other's face, they push, until one person hits the other with a haymaker, or they grab onto each other and roll around on the ground. Usually a strike preceeds any kind of ground game. And a lot of times people do seem to stay up. Not because they are good at defending grapplers, but because they only focus on throwing sloppy punches.

Ryu

[The Colonie Crusher]

I have to say that in the fights I've been in or seen I have come to these conclusions:

1) Most if not all street/bar fights involve alchohol. That's just a fact.

2) They mostly involve more than two people fighting (jumpings, someone jumps in). That is also a fact.

3) The drunk guy (or more drunk guy) usually gets his ass handed to them).

4) The guy who gets hit first when they are in each other's face usually loses.

5) I seriously question the Gracies 95% of all fights go to the ground theory. Actually, not to be a wise ass, but I think that's true only if they're counting when someone gets knocked out you then jump on them and continue to pound them on the ground. I think if a bunch of BJJ fighters went out and got into a bunch of street fights with average bar fighters, chances are they could take them to the ground. That's probably what the Gracies mean. However, if a bunch of boxers even amateur like myself went out and got into a bunch of street fights with average bar fighters, they could probably knock them out with one punch, and then boxers could claim "95% of all fights end with a KO punch...bla bla bla". It all depends on who you fight. Chances are you will not fight a trained fighter, simply beacuse a trained fighter doesn't need to prove himself, knows he can SERIOUSLY hurt someone, and is probably seriously into training and doesn't want to see jail time or break his hand pounding someone. The last person I hit in the street, I gave him 7 stitches over his eye, made his eye swollen shut where he couldn't see, and bloodied him up.....with one punch. Now does that mean ALL fights will end like that? Probably not. It all depends on who you fight.

6) The man with the more desire and drive wins. EVERYTIME. Adreniline(sp?) is stronger than people think. Women have been documented to pick up cars to save their babies. When certain people are pissed off, they are gone.

7) Most of the time the more trained man wins. A tough boxer, wrestler, BJJ player, etc. with desire almost always beats an untrained street punk.

Anyone agree, disagree?

[Joe Manco]

Why do you have a photo of a homosexual Jap as your signature?

Yours truly,

Joe

[Ryu (non-working password]

No disagreement from me. Good post.
Although I have had a few fights where it stayed one on one.
The one that involved two people I took someone down, and got pounded on my back a little. But I was able to just get out of the situation.

Welcome aboard!

Take care,
Ryu

[Ryu (non-working password]

Puppy Power,
That's Kimura. The Jap who could kick the ass of Helio Gracie and used to eat dogs for fun!

heh heh!

He's not naked!!! LOL.

Ryu

[Chill Daddy Ace]

Joe:

It's cause he has been negatively influenced by Ronin ("Kordell Stewart Fan").

[Ryu (non-working password]

LOL,
that too.

Ryu