How do you pick a school?

lynj99 · 10-25-2002, 12:38 PM

Hi everyone,

I have just viewed a wing chun class at a school ran by Kevin Chan and was pleasantly surprised at the way it was being trained and the attitude of Kevin Chan and the students.
The emphasis was on getting the students to learn the principles of Wing Chun rather than spending loads of time learning forms.

The class was two hours but Kevin who happened to be running this particular class made a point of coming over to talk to the people were watching and explaining about his style, the way the school was run and why he used this particular style of training. He seemed to be keen on getting the students to develop their own solutions to problems but by using simple but effective moves.

I found him to be very friendly, knowledgeable and respectful of other styles. This reason I have posted this here is he has a high regard for BJJ and incorporates some of it into his class.

This is a quote from his site

Why does Kevin Chan train in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu? "I believe that one must be familiar with all possible fighting arenas. You simply cannot guarantee that you will be able to remain on your feet in a fight. By training in the acknowledged and proven best style for ground fighting I am able defend myself in the event a confrontation goes to the floor. When fighting in Brazilian Ju-Jitsu I am able to utilises my Wing Chun skills of relaxed use of energy developed in Chi Sao and the raw close range power developed in many hours of basic drills." Kevin Chan

http://www.kamonwingchun.co.uk/Brazi...0Jiu-Jitsu.asp

I have been to about 6 weeks of Jeet Kune do classes at the Bob Breen Academy and greatly enjoyed it. I found that I have become greatly interested in the principles of wing chun which we touched upon in JKD and I wanted to know more but I found a lot of the Wing Chun classes to be elitist and stiff. Watching Kevin Chan's class I saw none of this. ( The advanced students were performing chi sao and ending up grappling on the floor as part of the training ). I have decided to sign up and later down the line combining it with some BJJ training. eventually I will go back to Jeet Kune Do to link it all together.

Sorry for droning on but I have been reading this forum for about a month now and have found it to be an excellent resource. To Brokenmace, Bri Thai and everyone who posts here you guys are all great and I would love hear your opinions.

How do you find the best school for you? (Is it trial and error or is are there important things to look for?) opinions please.

BTW Here is the link to Kevin Chans site. http://www.kamonwingchun.co.uk

Cheers

Lyndon

mushinmaster · 10-25-2002, 01:39 PM

I think you can't when you're new to MA. For me, my primary school has to be realistic stand-up fighting - that's what best suits me as a fighter. Once you figure out what you want your primary style to be, kinda like your core, find the instructor and environment that best matches your attitude toward the arts. Spend most of your time training at that school, but after a couple of years branch out too, and learn some more stuff, like grappling for me, maybe stick fighting, knife fighting, etc.

crazyjoe380 · 10-25-2002, 03:58 PM

WHERE I LIVE THERE IS TONS OF SCHOOLS TO CHOSE FROM..

I BROKE IT DOWN BY GETTING RID OF THE MOST UNEFFECTIVE SCHOOLS..

KARATE, TKD,

THERE IS A TKD AND KARATE SCHOOL ON EVERY DAMN CORNER ..
BUT LOTS OF STUDENTS....

THE BEST WAY I DO IS TRY IT FOR A MONTH..
U CAN'T SEE IF ITS GOOD, IF YOU DONT TRY IT..

MUAY THAI CONVINCED ME AND SO DID BJJ..
THE TRADITIONAL JU JITSU IS GREAT TOO BUT IT'S A MATTER OF MONEY LOL

lynj99 · 10-25-2002, 07:13 PM

Thanks for your replies you are quite right crazyjoe I won't know for sure till I try it. I am going to give Kevin Chan's school a try and see if it works for me. I am quite impressed with what I have seen so far. I will let you know how I get on.

I am interested to know what attracts people to a particular style so keep posting your replies.

Thanks

Lyndon

crazyjoe380 · 10-25-2002, 07:16 PM

your in london??

is westchester far? go to what's his names school.. bri thai's school.. he's from england too..

JaredExtreme · 10-25-2002, 08:34 PM

I agree with Joe. The first thing I look at is how the effective the fighting system is. If the school teaches kata or any other dancing, I write it off immediately.

The instructor is another important element. I've had an instructor in the past who talked a lot of about his religion and morals, which I felt was un-necessary.

Szczepankiewicz · 10-28-2002, 09:54 AM

I would have to disagree with Young Master Jared on this point. If they do katas, that doesn't mean you should immediately write them off. Kata can be a very valuable tool.

Now if ALL they do is kata, then I wouldn't stick around either.

On the second point, an instructor should share what they have learned with you. If you are not interested then you can leave. The instructor should only share with you if you are interested. If they're trying to indoctrinate you, then bug out.

Things I would look for:

1) Decide what you want to learn. Competition? Self Defense? The Ability to kick ass? Which one is for you?

2) Seek a well rounded system that attends to your needs as a student.

3) Make sure the instructor is a good teacher. If he can't teach people well, what is the point?

Add this to the list of what others have been saying.

Sz

JaredExtreme · 10-28-2002, 06:43 PM

I would have to disagree with the Elderly Szpnk in regards to kata. If someone is taking Martial Arts for self-defense and actual practicality, kata is useless.

In kata, there is no opponent. The kata practioner does not have to react or rely on instinct, he's simply performing a pre-arranged dance.......over.........and........over.

If someone is interested in Martial Arts for the "art" side of it (like the 11 year old black belts I see on ESPN) then sure, go ahead and do kata.

But if the person's interest lies in self-defence or practicality, time is better spent sparring/grappling than dancing in the air.

Szczepankiewicz · 10-29-2002, 09:28 AM

Ahhhh my young prodigy, I would have to agree that time is indeed better spent (most of the time) in randori. However, I must qualify in that we do not use the prearranged kata that so many arts use. So I guess we are in agreement. Most schools require you to memorize the same kata that have been used for years to get promoted. Even Judo does this.

However, we develop our own kata that helps the students think of how to create their own combinations and practice them without contact, similar to shadow boxing. The focus is balance, timing, and coordination without opposition. Kata does have it's benefits, although slight in comparison.

In essence, young Jared is very near the mark. If I walked into a school that was doing line dancing to learn their moves and only did kata to practice their self defense, I would exit, stage right, immediately if not sooner.....

But Jared's still funny lookin'!

SZ

crazyjoe380 · 10-29-2002, 10:56 AM

biaaatchhh!

midnight · 10-29-2002, 11:03 AM

Hey Joe very nice website, must admit i enjoy your opinions very much.

midnight · 10-29-2002, 11:52 AM

Please have a look at this....

"The potential for a child who join us at the age of 3. By the age of 5 reach Black Belt, age 6 reach 1st. Degree, age 10 reach 2nd. Degree, age 18 reach 3rd. Degree, age 22 reach 4th Degree and finally at age 27 reaches 5th Degree - Master Level"
http://ksdi.net/index.html

Some ware on the site he also brags that he has the youngest black belt ever 4 I think

crazyjoe380 · 10-29-2002, 12:50 PM

Martial arts arobic instructor?

Kids don't need black belt..they need to be guided...
this fool is mass producing black belts...

soon there will be an army of black belts

then tons of mcdojos everywhere!!!

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

J/K..

But it's kinda silly...
people will be people..

it's all about the $$$$$$$$$$$

kids = money
why? cause parents love to please they kids...

chalambok · 10-30-2002, 01:07 AM

I once read something in Black Belt that I kind of liked, and will try to replicate here. In the beginning it is most (not the most, just very much) important that your mind and body get acclimated to training for the rest of your life. A common saying is it takes 3 years to find a teacher. So, with that in mind, the Black Belt story said just to find the closest school to where you live, go as often as you can until you are sure you really want to learn martial arts and have somewhat educated your eye, and then search out what you want. A close look at almost everyone who contributes to Defend.Net will show that we all have moved through several arts, and most of us are still cross-training to some extent. Maybe there is no 'perfect, ultimate' school until you have trained enough to be able to open your own. As a teacher I have found that I learned much more from my students than I have ever managed to teach them. Master Chai just told me in June that you can never learn enough: "Even the drowning man is learning. He is learning that you cannot know everything about death."

Szczepankiewicz · 10-31-2002, 10:12 AM

Yup, I bet his black belts and others could out jump rope me, and out endurance me in any of their drills.

10-25-2002, 12:38 PM	#1 (permalink)
lynj99 Novice Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: London, England Posts: 10 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	How do you pick a school? Hi everyone, I have just viewed a wing chun class at a school ran by Kevin Chan and was pleasantly surprised at the way it was being trained and the attitude of Kevin Chan and the students. The emphasis was on getting the students to learn the principles of Wing Chun rather than spending loads of time learning forms. The class was two hours but Kevin who happened to be running this particular class made a point of coming over to talk to the people were watching and explaining about his style, the way the school was run and why he used this particular style of training. He seemed to be keen on getting the students to develop their own solutions to problems but by using simple but effective moves. I found him to be very friendly, knowledgeable and respectful of other styles. This reason I have posted this here is he has a high regard for BJJ and incorporates some of it into his class. This is a quote from his site Why does Kevin Chan train in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu? "I believe that one must be familiar with all possible fighting arenas. You simply cannot guarantee that you will be able to remain on your feet in a fight. By training in the acknowledged and proven best style for ground fighting I am able defend myself in the event a confrontation goes to the floor. When fighting in Brazilian Ju-Jitsu I am able to utilises my Wing Chun skills of relaxed use of energy developed in Chi Sao and the raw close range power developed in many hours of basic drills." Kevin Chan http://www.kamonwingchun.co.uk/Brazi...0Jiu-Jitsu.asp I have been to about 6 weeks of Jeet Kune do classes at the Bob Breen Academy and greatly enjoyed it. I found that I have become greatly interested in the principles of wing chun which we touched upon in JKD and I wanted to know more but I found a lot of the Wing Chun classes to be elitist and stiff. Watching Kevin Chan's class I saw none of this. ( The advanced students were performing chi sao and ending up grappling on the floor as part of the training ). I have decided to sign up and later down the line combining it with some BJJ training. eventually I will go back to Jeet Kune Do to link it all together. Sorry for droning on but I have been reading this forum for about a month now and have found it to be an excellent resource. To Brokenmace, Bri Thai and everyone who posts here you guys are all great and I would love hear your opinions. How do you find the best school for you? (Is it trial and error or is are there important things to look for?) opinions please. BTW Here is the link to Kevin Chans site. http://www.kamonwingchun.co.uk Cheers Lyndon __________________ First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you have to do.

10-25-2002, 01:39 PM	#2 (permalink)
mushinmaster Novice Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: SGF, NY Posts: 402 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I think you can't when you're new to MA. For me, my primary school has to be realistic stand-up fighting - that's what best suits me as a fighter. Once you figure out what you want your primary style to be, kinda like your core, find the instructor and environment that best matches your attitude toward the arts. Spend most of your time training at that school, but after a couple of years branch out too, and learn some more stuff, like grappling for me, maybe stick fighting, knife fighting, etc. __________________ Alex Bedard http://www.geocities.com/mushinmaster

10-25-2002, 03:58 PM	#3 (permalink)
crazyjoe380 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,368 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	WHERE I LIVE THERE IS TONS OF SCHOOLS TO CHOSE FROM.. I BROKE IT DOWN BY GETTING RID OF THE MOST UNEFFECTIVE SCHOOLS.. KARATE, TKD, THERE IS A TKD AND KARATE SCHOOL ON EVERY DAMN CORNER .. BUT LOTS OF STUDENTS.... THE BEST WAY I DO IS TRY IT FOR A MONTH.. U CAN'T SEE IF ITS GOOD, IF YOU DONT TRY IT.. MUAY THAI CONVINCED ME AND SO DID BJJ.. THE TRADITIONAL JU JITSU IS GREAT TOO BUT IT'S A MATTER OF MONEY LOL __________________

10-25-2002, 07:13 PM	#4 (permalink)
lynj99 Novice Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: London, England Posts: 10 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for your replies you are quite right crazyjoe I won't know for sure till I try it. I am going to give Kevin Chan's school a try and see if it works for me. I am quite impressed with what I have seen so far. I will let you know how I get on. I am interested to know what attracts people to a particular style so keep posting your replies. Thanks Lyndon __________________ First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you have to do.

10-25-2002, 07:16 PM	#5 (permalink)
crazyjoe380 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,368 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	your in london?? is westchester far? go to what's his names school.. bri thai's school.. he's from england too.. __________________

10-25-2002, 08:34 PM	#6 (permalink)
JaredExtreme Registered User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,115 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I agree with Joe. The first thing I look at is how the effective the fighting system is. If the school teaches kata or any other dancing, I write it off immediately. The instructor is another important element. I've had an instructor in the past who talked a lot of about his religion and morals, which I felt was un-necessary. __________________ "I don't fight in the street, there's no mats out there." - JaredExtreme

10-28-2002, 09:54 AM	#7 (permalink)
Szczepankiewicz Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Meridian, ID, USA Posts: 4,109 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I would have to disagree with Young Master Jared on this point. If they do katas, that doesn't mean you should immediately write them off. Kata can be a very valuable tool. Now if ALL they do is kata, then I wouldn't stick around either. On the second point, an instructor should share what they have learned with you. If you are not interested then you can leave. The instructor should only share with you if you are interested. If they're trying to indoctrinate you, then bug out. Things I would look for: 1) Decide what you want to learn. Competition? Self Defense? The Ability to kick ass? Which one is for you? 2) Seek a well rounded system that attends to your needs as a student. 3) Make sure the instructor is a good teacher. If he can't teach people well, what is the point? Add this to the list of what others have been saying. Sz

10-28-2002, 06:43 PM	#8 (permalink)
JaredExtreme Registered User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,115 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I would have to disagree with the Elderly Szpnk in regards to kata. If someone is taking Martial Arts for self-defense and actual practicality, kata is useless. In kata, there is no opponent. The kata practioner does not have to react or rely on instinct, he's simply performing a pre-arranged dance.......over.........and........over. If someone is interested in Martial Arts for the "art" side of it (like the 11 year old black belts I see on ESPN) then sure, go ahead and do kata. But if the person's interest lies in self-defence or practicality, time is better spent sparring/grappling than dancing in the air. __________________ "I don't fight in the street, there's no mats out there." - JaredExtreme

10-29-2002, 09:28 AM	#9 (permalink)
Szczepankiewicz Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Meridian, ID, USA Posts: 4,109 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ahhhh my young prodigy, I would have to agree that time is indeed better spent (most of the time) in randori. However, I must qualify in that we do not use the prearranged kata that so many arts use. So I guess we are in agreement. Most schools require you to memorize the same kata that have been used for years to get promoted. Even Judo does this. However, we develop our own kata that helps the students think of how to create their own combinations and practice them without contact, similar to shadow boxing. The focus is balance, timing, and coordination without opposition. Kata does have it's benefits, although slight in comparison. In essence, young Jared is very near the mark. If I walked into a school that was doing line dancing to learn their moves and only did kata to practice their self defense, I would exit, stage right, immediately if not sooner..... But Jared's still funny lookin'! SZ

10-29-2002, 10:56 AM	#10 (permalink)
crazyjoe380 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,368 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	biaaatchhh! __________________

10-29-2002, 11:03 AM	#11 (permalink)
midnight Novice Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: georgia USA Posts: 72 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hey Joe very nice website, must admit i enjoy your opinions very much. __________________ "As soon as you concern yourself with the "good" and "bad" of your fellows, you create an opening in your heart for maliciousness to enter. Testing, competing with, and criticizing others weaken and defeat you." - Morihei Ueshiba

10-29-2002, 11:52 AM	#12 (permalink)
midnight Novice Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: georgia USA Posts: 72 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	maybe this one is really good Please have a look at this.... "The potential for a child who join us at the age of 3. By the age of 5 reach Black Belt, age 6 reach 1st. Degree, age 10 reach 2nd. Degree, age 18 reach 3rd. Degree, age 22 reach 4th Degree and finally at age 27 reaches 5th Degree - Master Level" http://ksdi.net/index.html Some ware on the site he also brags that he has the youngest black belt ever 4 I think __________________ "As soon as you concern yourself with the "good" and "bad" of your fellows, you create an opening in your heart for maliciousness to enter. Testing, competing with, and criticizing others weaken and defeat you." - Morihei Ueshiba

10-29-2002, 12:50 PM	#13 (permalink)
crazyjoe380 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,368 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Martial arts arobic instructor? Kids don't need black belt..they need to be guided... this fool is mass producing black belts... soon there will be an army of black belts then tons of mcdojos everywhere!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! J/K.. But it's kinda silly... people will be people.. it's all about the $$$$$$$$$$$ kids = money why? cause parents love to please they kids... __________________

10-30-2002, 01:07 AM	#14 (permalink)
chalambok Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Oregon City, Oregon USA Posts: 724 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I once read something in Black Belt that I kind of liked, and will try to replicate here. In the beginning it is most (not the most, just very much) important that your mind and body get acclimated to training for the rest of your life. A common saying is it takes 3 years to find a teacher. So, with that in mind, the Black Belt story said just to find the closest school to where you live, go as often as you can until you are sure you really want to learn martial arts and have somewhat educated your eye, and then search out what you want. A close look at almost everyone who contributes to Defend.Net will show that we all have moved through several arts, and most of us are still cross-training to some extent. Maybe there is no 'perfect, ultimate' school until you have trained enough to be able to open your own. As a teacher I have found that I learned much more from my students than I have ever managed to teach them. Master Chai just told me in June that you can never learn enough: "Even the drowning man is learning. He is learning that you cannot know everything about death."

10-31-2002, 10:12 AM	#15 (permalink)
Szczepankiewicz Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Meridian, ID, USA Posts: 4,109 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Yup, I bet his black belts and others could out jump rope me, and out endurance me in any of their drills.

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