(( Complete Martial Art ))

[blade_cs]

I'm looking for a martial art that is complete, covering ground and stand up fighting, with effective joint locks and strikes.... and some everyday weapons (eg: baton, bat, knife...)

My choices are:

1) Hapkido

2) Shorinji Kempo

3) Ninjitsu (I've heard of it, but can you give me a description?)

4) Jujitsu

5) Aikido

6) Aiki-Jujitsu

7) Hwarangdo

8) Karate

9) Kung Fu

10) Tai Jutsu (heard, it's good, but not complete sure about the martial art)

11) Sung Hang Do

Cross Train.

[Brokenmace]

Traditional Jujitsu will probably give you the most well-rounded training. They don't go to the ground nearly as much as Brazilian Jujitsu, but unlike BJJ they will teach you how to properly use your hands if you don't want to go to the ground.

However, like most Asian arts, I'm skeptical of their punching methodology. They teach you power first, then technique later. If they spar a whole lot, this won't matter. Beware if you only see them doing forms, although this is less of a concern in Jujitsu, as you can't learn locks and submissions from a form, really.

Karate has the same problem with punching, but depending on the style, they will spar very hard and often. See if the senior students train without pads while sparring medium contact or heavier. That's usually a good sign. Shotokan is known for its sparring for competition, and some of their instructors train equally hard for the street. A lot of folks bad mouth Karate, but depending on your training and mindset it can be as good as anything else. Just look at Mas Oyama: you don't win 100person kumite with bullshyte.

[terry]

I would add to your list of arts the following general criteria:

1. Does the training produce fitness? In other words, do they sweat?

2. Does the training involve working with resisting opponents? If so, how much?

3. Is the training accessible? (cheap enough to afford, close enough to train consistently, etc.)

4. Does the school produce students that can fight?

T

[robertlee]

You have several arts on your list if they are close then take the time to watch a few classes of the ones you realy think you want to try if the training looks like its somthing you want to try than jump in later explore what yuo think will complinment your other needs No one art will have all the answers

[crazyjoe380]

only a few on that list are complete..


the rest are completely useless..

[blade_cs]

Which are complete and which are usless?

[robertlee]

Originally posted by blade_cs
Which are complete and which are usless?

NO ONE ART IS COMPLETE or that would be the only art ..jujistu is useful. hapkido karate depending on style depends on you what are you really wanting you may have to incorparate more than one system to find the tools you need start with one go from there..

[Jkd_SiLaT]

Blade,

Check out Pencak Silat. It fits your description of a complete art.

Heres some websites where you can get more info:

www.suwandaacademy.com
www.kuntaosilatdethouars.com
www.serak.com
www.buktinegara.com
www.pentjaksilatusa.com

Hope that helps.

[conach]

covering ground and stand up fighting,
with effective joint locks and strikes....
and some everyday weapons (eg: baton, bat, knife...)

Check out Kali or Jeet Kune Do... Both cover batons, knives and other weapons. And hand to hand combat is excellent in both.

[blade_cs]

What about Hapkido? There arn't many Kali or JKD places near where I live.

Please tell me your opinions on Hapkido.

[punk000]

i dont know much, but from what ive seen (and plan to do).... The best martial art to study is a combo..... that bjj, muay thai, and judo.

the reasons are, Muay thai is the greatest of all striking martial arts.... so you can hold your own in a fist/knee/elbow/shin/heel ect ect ect fight.

bjj is a very efective grappling and submission art, so with this in hand you can handle youself on the ground.

and judo isnt realy necisary but if you want to do mma comps its good to have,, so that you can take ppl down.

with this mix, (if your good) you will dominate the fight all the time. during the fist fight, while ure trhowing ure oponent, and while ure on the ground....

but just cuz you have this mix dont mean u will be invincible, but ull definately hold ure own....

im gonna go for that mix, but im only on the mt part for now.....

[crazyjoe380]

the ones that are useless are the ones not in your path..


*places pinky ring finger in air*

[ryanhall]

i posted this in the contemporary fighting arts forum:

i say no, but you decide (long and opinionated) October 15 2002, 4:29 PM

tony,
i studied hapkido for a couple months and i was not impressed. all those "locks and throws" that hapkido types love seem to fall apart under pressure. hell, they're hard enough to pull off when someone's letting you do it to them. wouldn't it be great if everybody you ever got into a confrontation with just grabbed your wrist and stood there to let you slap the joint lock from hell on them? sadly, i don't think that happens too often.

the place i trained at didn't even spar for god's sake. they said something in the order of: "these things are too dangerous for sparring." translation: you will never pull them off when someone is trying to hit you, but we don't want you to know that. i don't want to start a big thing about this, but if "clean tactics" such as standing wrist locks and arm bars were so effective, they would be used in the ufc or similar events. shamrock shoots! oh, no, he's caught in the deadly thumb lock of doom! it's all over folks, maybe next year for mr. shamrock. in my experience, these things just don't work--even for people with years of experience. why do bjj's armlocks, wrist twists, etc. work? they are grounded and stabalized. the same wrist lever taht will make you bend over in annoyance whilst standing will separate your hand from your arm when you are grappling on the ground.

next, forget about the catching punches that they do. if someone wants to step into a solid front stance and throw a reverse punch at your chest, maybe you have a chance, but if you leave your samurai armor at home, i doubt anybody'll try it. also, don't forget to pull out that x-block if someone tries to gore you with a katana. but wait! that's a great move against a knife too! even when the 'master' is 'cut' every time he tries it at half speed, it remains an unimpeachable tenent of the style.

worst of all, the jerk running the place had 3 or 4 women who weighed no more than 110 lbs walking around thinking they could drop a 250 lb assailant with a wrist twist or a pressure point strike. frankly, for that, i think the 'master' needed his head bounced off a sidewalk. repeatedly.

i don't know...maybe i'm a little bitter about the place because none of the black belts had ever sparred a round in their lives, would have slim or no chance of protecting themselves against a schoolyard bully--they are all in their late 20s--(yet they would lecture endlessly on the effectiveness or this or that 'hand technique'), and every time i questioned (respectfully) anything, the 'master' would get all pissed and start saying that i was disloyal or disrespectful for questioning him. in the end, i got fed up with the place, did some research, found CFA/sammy, and never looked back.

my honest opinion: if it's practical self defense you're looking for, stay far away from hapkido. at least if it at all resembles what i just told you about. you would be much better off buying some quality books and tapes and reading/watching them. the things above were more than enough for me to never want to go back to that school or ever refer anybody interested in self defense to anything like it.

here's a quick warning bell: if someone says, "this technique doesn't come over night. it takes years and years of practice to be able to use this," RUN. you don't want to be proficient in something in 10 years, you want it now. "excuse me mr. mugger, can you come back in, say, 10 or 15 years? i'm not quite ready for you at the moment." as far as i can tell from my own limited experience and the vast experience of others on this board it is generally the simplest things that work the best, and a legitimate self defense tool or technique should be working reasonable well 5 minutes after you are introduced to it. everything sammy has taught me has made total sense and i have been able to pick up and use right away. that should probably be your measure. well, sorry for being long-winded. i hope i helped.

ryan

[Ice Phoenix]

Indeed ryanhall's post is a very typical account of people's experiences with Hapkido.