the best takedown

[platinum_angel]

the best way i have ever seen to take someone down would be a simple tackel. i have witnessed many fights and usually after a couple punches are thrown they just tackel each other down. for some reason i find this technique almost uncounterable anavoidable. can anyone tell me how to counter this technique. i know for one some aikido moves don't work.

[mjmnam]

straight into a guillotine choke. or am i supposed to try to keep standing?

[MrPoopy]

Can you explain the tackle some more? Maybe you're talking about a double leg takedown.

[ryanhall]

body tackles can be very dangerous. it's easy to end up with a concussion if you get taken down by one. the best ways to avoid it are sidestepping at the last second, or jamming the shoulder(s) with everything you've got while moving out of the way.

[platinum_angel]

i'm am talking about a tackle where they just shoot in like a football player and take your legs out

[mjmnam]

Originally posted by mjmnam
straight into a guillotine choke.

[platinum_angel]

could you describe the guillotine choke for me.don't know what it is

[ryanhall]

straight into a guillotine choke.

ummmm....dude...have you forgotten that he's not talking about a ring? any advice that says "just do this" is wrong. what if the tackler is bigger/stronger? what if you don't get his head here you want it? what if he has friends who could step in on his behalf? he has momentum going with him, that means you go to the ground. what if you fall and hit your head on the pavement (not a big risk in the octagon)? that's the end of you. what if you don't get the choke on and now you're on the ground with a linebacker who wants to bang your head against the sidewalk? come up with your own way of dealing with this. don't look for the magic pill technique.

ryan

[mjmnam]

what if this, what if that, what if i just pulled out a knife and stabbed the bastard in the kidney as he's shooting in?
relax, he didn't say where it was taking place. and yes, if i were on the street i'd do something totally different from the guilotine. there are different ways to handle it, that's just one.

[ryanhall]

[quote]what if this, what if that, what if i just pulled out a knife and stabbed the bastard in the kidney as he's shooting in? /QUOTE]

that would work too (probably your best bet), but you'd go to jail for assault with a deadly weapon. in real life you have to take into account the "what if's."

there are different ways to handle it, that's just one.

fair enough.

if i were on the street i'd do something totally different from the guilotine.

you should say that a certain technique is used for a certain place. i figured that he was referring to "the street" because he said he'd seen fights with a few punches and a tackle that was "unavoidable." that doesn't sound like an nhb match to me. people dodge a double leg all the time in the octagon.

ryan

[platinum_angel]

now i was on the street and a big guy tryed to tackle me i would think there would be no way to avoid that tackle. for one if he is big and you try to step out of the way he will still get you. believe me i have tryed it. and if you had a knife that is not going to save you from the momentum. you might get a stab in but that would just piss the big dude off.......then he would prolly beat the crap out of you. i don't see how any choke would help you against his momentum. i've have seen aikido masters take their opponents thumbs and twist them and then their opponents would do flip. but i know thats a load of crap. the only thing that has worked for me would be a foward roll. its just i thought there would be a better solution.

[ryanhall]

on the street and a big guy tryed to tackle me i would think there would be no way to avoid that tackle. for one if he is big and you try to step out of the way he will still get you. believe me i have tryed it. and if you had a knife that is not going to save you from the momentum. you might get a stab in but that would just piss the big dude off.......then he would prolly beat the crap out of you.

not to bash you, but you are..........WRONG!!!!!!!!!!

unless you are extremely slow and extremely small/weak, moving at the last second will save you. how do you think barry sanders pulled off those 90 yard runs? his line sucked, he was small, and there were opponents everywhere. you move at the last possible second--i know you are not barry sanders, but your opponent isn't lawrence taylor either. it's worked for me.

if you stab a big guy in the kidneys he'll just beat you? give me a fu#king break. oh no, he took you down! but wait, he's trying hard as hell to get up for some reason. could it be the blade that is sticking out of his side? in the movies, the good guy gets stabbed/cut/gored and still fights and disarms the villain with a really flashy, super cool joint lock/throw. in real life, when someone puts a knife six inches into you, you are in some shit (if it's in a vital area, you are 6 feet under). give a knife to a 98 lb weakling with the proper physical and mental training, and he will stop a 200 lb killer. just to put things into perspective, people have been shot in the heart with a .45 magnum and survived long enough to stab a police officer to death. if someone has their carotid artery cut, they die so fast you wouldn't believe it.

about the choke, i never said it could not be effective. once you're on the ground, it can put someone right out. i was just making the point about uncertain terrain and not knowing if you are facing multiple opponents or a weapon.

NEVER ROLL IN A STREETFIGHT. it puts you on the ground, under somone's feet, and defenseless. it has no place in fighting. if you are so worried about going to the ground, why are you doing the attacker's job for him?

before you go feeling hopeless about dealing with a tackle or getting mad at me for what i said, ask for some other opinions.

try posting this question on the forums at:

www.selfdefenseforums.com
www.senshido.com
www.sammyfranco.com

these people know what they're talking about. weigh their opinions and decide.

one educated opinion
ryan

[platinum_angel]

Originally posted by ryanhall



NEVER ROLL IN A STREETFIGHT. it puts you on the ground, under somone's feet, and defenseless. it has no place in fighting. if you are so worried about going to the ground, why are you doing the attacker's job for him?

before you go feeling hopeless about dealing with a tackle or getting mad at me for what i said, ask for some other opinions.


one educated opinion
ryan

first of all there is a big difference between rolling and lying flat on your back. because when you roll, you roll back up into you stance. i don't see how that couldn't work. and didn't mean roll right into him lol. thought you knew that

second of all if i felt hopeless then i wouldn't have posted this thread and would of just ignored the fact someone could do that. and also i am not mad i was just stating what i thought. i respect everyones opinions.

other than that i would guess you are right about the stabing. but i still don't think it would be a good idea to apply the choke. if anything i would try to keep my distance from the person.

[mjmnam]

when people say "roll" on this board in reference to fighting, it usually means "to wrestle" or applying some kind of groundfighting technique

[MrPoopy]

Telling a person that has only studied bjj not to roll in a fight is pretty worthless. Are you going to try and out punch him, out kick him, or are you gonna do what you know you can do and mess him up really good?