ranking by belts

platinum_angel · 12-04-2002, 08:12 PM

in JKD i they don't believe in ranking by belt and i agree with them. i think that belts do not show skill or experience. like someone said before "saidly but not all black belts can defend themselves from attack".

when i was in goju-ryu they would base your ranking on the amount of days you attended. there was this one guy that was a black belt (was one year younger than me but bigger than me also). when we sparred i beat him bad. i was only yellow at the time. now if he couldn't beat me in sparring does that belt really show how experienced and skilled he is. Noooo. same thing with a bunch of other people in that school. i would beat adults in that class too by the way (i'm so proud

) but anyways the point is why should students wear belts that do not resemble their skills. and if all belts do is make an illusion for the students than why even have them.

.

Szczepankiewicz · 12-04-2002, 08:21 PM

I wear a belt for one of two reasons. To hold up my pants or to hold my gi top closed.

We rarely train in gis, so I have not worn my belt in a long long time.

Does this gi make me look fat?

Mr. Miyagi · 12-04-2002, 08:23 PM

Not in BJJ. If your teacher has correct standards your belt tells a lot about your skill level.

platinum_angel · 12-04-2002, 08:24 PM

is it me or do you feel nude when you wear a gi.

. just feels weird when i wear it. almost a little dirty

Szczepankiewicz · 12-04-2002, 08:27 PM

Now that you mentioned it, it does feel a little naughty. Especially if you go commando while grappling with the judo girls...

ryanhall · 12-04-2002, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Now that you mentioned it, it does feel a little naughty. Especially if you go commando while grappling with the judo girls...

why would anyone do something like that...?

i would never do that...

magic · 12-04-2002, 10:13 PM

/rant mode on

Some of the arguments here seem a little contradictory - on one hand you have people arguing that ranking by belts is meaningless and then expecting that everyone with a black belt will be untouchable in sparring and /or on the street.

IMHO, its in the same contradictory vein as poking fun at traditional MA (esp. those with "magical" internal powers!?!) but then elevating MMA to the same mystical level!

/poorly-dubbed english on

"my freestyle JKD will easily overpower your puny MT/BJJ!"

"i think not grasshopper, for i have the hidden secrets of master gracie"

/poorly-dubbed english off

/rant mode off

platinum_angel · 12-04-2002, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by magic

Some of the arguments here seem a little contradictory - on one hand you have people arguing that ranking by belts is meaningless and then expecting that everyone with a black belt will be untouchable in sparring and /or on the street.

"my freestyle JKD will easily overpower your puny MT/BJJ!"

"i think not grasshopper, for i have the hidden secrets of master gracie"

before i posted this i changed my mind.

"my superior MT/BJJ will easily overpower your freestyle JKD!"

"i think not grasshopper, for i have the hidden secrets of master lee"

ryanhall · 12-04-2002, 11:38 PM

i think the issue is the standards. every traditional black belt i have ever known couldn't fight his/her way out of a paper bag. this is probably a largely american problem, as most martial arts here are a joke. i prefer not to have belts, because they mean nothing. the standards are different everywhere, and the rank rarely reflects the ability of the student. i would say that boxing/thai are different because the belt really is only in the ring. bjj also has high standards because it is designed for serious comptetition. a school's reputation would be ruined if its black belts were getting trashed by blue belts from elsewhere. as for the street, owning a black belt has nothing to do with it. it comes down to the individual, not the skill or the amount of techniques memorized.

just my 2 cents
ryan

MrPoopy · 12-05-2002, 12:37 AM

I'm not sure how belts are in other martial arts, but in bjj a belt really doesn't matter. It does not tell much about the person. I know a guy that's damn near a purple belt even tho he wears a white. He just never tested.

The best way to find out a persons skill level is by grappling with them. Everyone in my bjj class knows each others skill level, and belts have nothing to do with it.

ryanhall · 12-05-2002, 12:40 AM

Quote:

The best way to find out a persons skill level is by grappling with them. Everyone in my bjj class knows each others skill level, and belts have nothing to do with it.

exactly. the true measure of a person does not lie in the color of their belt or the number of certificates on their wall.

magic · 12-05-2002, 12:42 AM

I do agree though - belt level is meaningless, regardless of art or style practised . . .

To mangle the old saying "It is the size of the fight in the dog, not the shade of his/her collar that matters!"

Scott Kano · 12-05-2002, 06:16 AM

In some arts the belt ranking system should be there. In Judo and maybe the same in jujitsu I reckon belt rankings really tell skill level. Like you wouldnt go hardout and throw someone with yellow belt as he has just like learned how to breakful and stuff. But faced against a green belt or higher ya can go nuts and chuck em round

Also It gives you a feeling of achievement, As when I got my green belt in Judo I had to work dam hard to get it, and had to face a lineup.

Maybe in some arts it could be different.

Thanks
Scott

Szczepankiewicz · 12-05-2002, 11:39 AM

Ahh, that's the major point right? Belts should not be meaningless.

Just like a policeman's badge or a sergeant's rank... it should stand for something that is consistent across the board.

As it stands now, most rank is a joke.
Most martial arts are a joke
Most martial artists are a joke

Unfortunately this will never change. As has been discussed many times, it's the individual that counts. So, as an individual, I will make up my own stuff, charge a ton of money, and grant myself an impressive title.

Bring back the Thunderdome!

Szczepankiewicz the Obstinate

doubleouch · 12-08-2002, 12:57 AM

Belt ranking in BJJ is there in order to group people for competition. No other reason. This is, incedentally, the reason belt ranking came about in the first place.

12-04-2002, 08:12 PM	#1 (permalink)
platinum_angel Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: heaven and hell Posts: 714 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	ranking by belts in JKD i they don't believe in ranking by belt and i agree with them. i think that belts do not show skill or experience. like someone said before "saidly but not all black belts can defend themselves from attack". when i was in goju-ryu they would base your ranking on the amount of days you attended. there was this one guy that was a black belt (was one year younger than me but bigger than me also). when we sparred i beat him bad. i was only yellow at the time. now if he couldn't beat me in sparring does that belt really show how experienced and skilled he is. Noooo. same thing with a bunch of other people in that school. i would beat adults in that class too by the way (i'm so proud ) but anyways the point is why should students wear belts that do not resemble their skills. and if all belts do is make an illusion for the students than why even have them. . __________________ In order to experience true peace you must first overcome true hardship. remember the wind, for it flows through all of us. I like smeg-ma chips. for all those who i offend............i don't give a shit

12-04-2002, 08:24 PM	#4 (permalink)
platinum_angel Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: heaven and hell Posts: 714 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	is it me or do you feel nude when you wear a gi. . just feels weird when i wear it. almost a little dirty __________________ In order to experience true peace you must first overcome true hardship. remember the wind, for it flows through all of us. I like smeg-ma chips. for all those who i offend............i don't give a shit

12-05-2002, 12:37 AM	#10 (permalink)
MrPoopy Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Ks Posts: 782 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I'm not sure how belts are in other martial arts, but in bjj a belt really doesn't matter. It does not tell much about the person. I know a guy that's damn near a purple belt even tho he wears a white. He just never tested. The best way to find out a persons skill level is by grappling with them. Everyone in my bjj class knows each others skill level, and belts have nothing to do with it. __________________ MrPoopy

12-05-2002, 06:16 AM	#13 (permalink)
Scott Kano Novice Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Christchurch NZ Posts: 160 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	In some arts the belt ranking system should be there. In Judo and maybe the same in jujitsu I reckon belt rankings really tell skill level. Like you wouldnt go hardout and throw someone with yellow belt as he has just like learned how to breakful and stuff. But faced against a green belt or higher ya can go nuts and chuck em round Also It gives you a feeling of achievement, As when I got my green belt in Judo I had to work dam hard to get it, and had to face a lineup. Maybe in some arts it could be different. Thanks Scott __________________ Minimum Effort, with Maximum Efficieny

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12-04-2002, 08:21 PM	#2 (permalink)
Szczepankiewicz Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Meridian, ID, USA Posts: 4,109 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I wear a belt for one of two reasons. To hold up my pants or to hold my gi top closed. We rarely train in gis, so I have not worn my belt in a long long time. Does this gi make me look fat?

12-04-2002, 08:23 PM	#3 (permalink)
Mr. Miyagi Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 719 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Not in BJJ. If your teacher has correct standards your belt tells a lot about your skill level.

12-04-2002, 08:27 PM	#5 (permalink)
Szczepankiewicz Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Meridian, ID, USA Posts: 4,109 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Now that you mentioned it, it does feel a little naughty. Especially if you go commando while grappling with the judo girls...

12-04-2002, 10:13 PM	#7 (permalink)
magic Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Western Australia Posts: 33 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	/rant mode on Some of the arguments here seem a little contradictory - on one hand you have people arguing that ranking by belts is meaningless and then expecting that everyone with a black belt will be untouchable in sparring and /or on the street. IMHO, its in the same contradictory vein as poking fun at traditional MA (esp. those with "magical" internal powers!?!) but then elevating MMA to the same mystical level! /poorly-dubbed english on "my freestyle JKD will easily overpower your puny MT/BJJ!" "i think not grasshopper, for i have the hidden secrets of master gracie" /poorly-dubbed english off /rant mode off

12-04-2002, 11:38 PM	#9 (permalink)
ryanhall Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 1,247 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	i think the issue is the standards. every traditional black belt i have ever known couldn't fight his/her way out of a paper bag. this is probably a largely american problem, as most martial arts here are a joke. i prefer not to have belts, because they mean nothing. the standards are different everywhere, and the rank rarely reflects the ability of the student. i would say that boxing/thai are different because the belt really is only in the ring. bjj also has high standards because it is designed for serious comptetition. a school's reputation would be ruined if its black belts were getting trashed by blue belts from elsewhere. as for the street, owning a black belt has nothing to do with it. it comes down to the individual, not the skill or the amount of techniques memorized. just my 2 cents ryan

12-05-2002, 12:42 AM	#12 (permalink)
magic Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Western Australia Posts: 33 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I do agree though - belt level is meaningless, regardless of art or style practised . . . To mangle the old saying "It is the size of the fight in the dog, not the shade of his/her collar that matters!"

12-05-2002, 11:39 AM	#14 (permalink)
Szczepankiewicz Registered User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Meridian, ID, USA Posts: 4,109 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ahh, that's the major point right? Belts should not be meaningless. Just like a policeman's badge or a sergeant's rank... it should stand for something that is consistent across the board. As it stands now, most rank is a joke. Most martial arts are a joke Most martial artists are a joke Unfortunately this will never change. As has been discussed many times, it's the individual that counts. So, as an individual, I will make up my own stuff, charge a ton of money, and grant myself an impressive title. Bring back the Thunderdome! Szczepankiewicz the Obstinate

12-08-2002, 12:57 AM	#15 (permalink)
doubleouch Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: portland, or Posts: 417 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Belt ranking in BJJ is there in order to group people for competition. No other reason. This is, incedentally, the reason belt ranking came about in the first place.

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