TaI Chi

[Frank DUx]

Does Tai chi all that it is cracked up to be, can u use it in real life and whats up with the strength and power u get from it.

[Szczepankiewicz]

Can you use it in real life? You bet. Everyday.

Next question?

[Arms_Of_Thor]

It is if you are dedicated, and want to sit in forms for 30 min at a time.

[Pattyamigo]

Many in the western world do not have the patience, or discipline, to recieve the full benefits of Tai Chi. It requires long hours of meditation, and concentration, to get the special abilities one can possess.

[ryanhall]

It requires long hours of meditation, and concentration, to get the special abilities one can possess.

Special abilities? Like what? Dying faster than any normal human being could if faced with an attacker? Use the force, Luke. Sad

[chris davis 200]

Special abilities? Like what? Dying faster than any normal human being could if faced with an attacker? Use the force, Luke. Sad

I dont really think that many people in this forum know too much about Tai chi chuan!!

Tai chi is a Martial Art - first and formost. Forget the meditation, forget the chi (although this is integral at later stages) etc!

Form work teaches you balance and correct body alignment, that is what it is used for. Every part of the form has a combat application. The forms of tai chi can be performed slowly (most people see this side) but can also be purformed very fast, with rapid vicious movement.

Push hands, i am talking about the real stuff - not the competition crap that you see now all over the place, is used for sensetivity, it teaches you natural reaction as appossed to learned reaction. So that in a fight instinctive responces come out, rather than robotic applications.

High level free sparring is very vicious and many people suffer broken bones etc through this practice if they attempt it at a low level. Tai chi uses kicks to the knees, groin, solar plexus and hip joints, It uses a huge array of Chin Na (equivilent of JuJutsu), A large array of hand strikes, including eye gouges and power punches.

Unfortunatly real Tai Chi Chuan is very very rare now because of the fantastic health benifits people get from practice, this has been more focused on. So i understand peoples opinions of the art. Many who claim to be masters really are not!!

But to dismiss one of the most respected MARTIAL ARTS of china because of a bunch of bogus instructors in the west is really silly!

As far as throwing people accross the room is concerned (i get the impression that this is what people think of) this is far far more to do with body alignment, correct positioning, making your opponent get into a position with subtle body movements on your part etc etc, than it is to do with chi power.

BK frantzis has defeated all comers using internal martial arts, i believe some where MT too. Ok so it takes longer to get there, but i think that most people who are looking to study the martial side of Tai chi are already fairly good fighters and are looking for a more advanced and effective art. Tai chi will take you about 3-4 years of dedicated practice to become a good fighter, but this level of fighter will be very high when compared to an external artist of similar experience.

Pushing, punching and kicking hard only works if there is something to hit! Tai chi teaches you to be soft and yeld to the opponent - then explode and crush him with well placed and timed strikes. You dont stand there and slug it out, they can do that, you wait and wear them out, then BANG - ooopss your knocked out and have a bruised kidney!

Just some thoughts.
Cheers
Chris

[ryanhall]

Chris,

I'm aware that Tai Chi has a very large amount of respect in the East as a martial art. Here in the US of A, it is a joke. It does have health benefits (i.e. lowering blood pressure), but if that is the focus, it takes the "martial" out of martial art. As far as it being effective in real combat, I'd have to see it to believe it. My comment was directed to the "special powers" that one receives. That idea is just nonsense. Unfortunately, human beings cannot use their minds to lift objects or become impervious to bullets. It's a martial myth that works on the weak minded. The real magical power is the ability to make people THINK that you have something you don't. Some will fear you, others will want to be your friend, and idiots will believe everything you say.

As far as combat goes, never doing any resistance training or serious combat training can not do anything except hurt your ability to function in a fight. I don't believe in the small, frail, and extremely deadly Chinese masters that supposedly exist. Everyone talks about them, but it's always "I've met so and so and they are incredible." I want to see it before I put any faith in it.

BK frantzis has defeated all comers using internal martial arts, i believe some where MT too. Ok so it takes longer to get there, but i think that most people who are looking to study the martial side of Tai chi are already fairly good fighters and are looking for a more advanced and effective art. Tai chi will take you about 3-4 years of dedicated practice to become a good fighter, but this level of fighter will be very high when compared to an external artist of similar experience.

Once again, I'll believe it when I see it. Martial artists are notorious for greatly overplaying their victories and somehow "forgetting" about those times they lost. Even if the timeframe statement was correct (I'm not sure where you came up with it, but I'll take your word for it), I would rather go with 4 years of combatives. After 6 months (here's my unverifiable number), the student will be able to do some serious damage to an attacker. A Tai Chi man with the same amount of time would be dead because he hadn't learned how to apply what he had learned (if it in fact had real life value). If you are good now, you will be better in time. I acknowledge that some things take more time than other to learn, but I put my faith in what works NOW.

Pushing, punching and kicking hard only works if there is something to hit! Tai chi teaches you to be soft and yeld to the opponent - then explode and crush him with well placed and timed strikes. You dont stand there and slug it out, they can do that, you wait and wear them out, then BANG - ooopss your knocked out and have a bruised kidney!

Once again, I'll believe it if I see it. They (Tai Chi-ers) are not magical. They cannot run/block/dodge forever--nobody can. Put a professional boxer in there, and I'd like to see them come out alive, much less unscathed. Still, I remain open-minded. If I ever witness "real" (everyone says that nothing is "real" if it loses. Take a look at Wing Chun--which I like--everyone says that "real" Wing Chun will defeat everyone, but it is impossible to find...riiiigggghhhhtt) Tai Chi in real life combat, I might be forced to alter my opinion.

Take care,

Ryan

[Ice Phoenix]

I agree. I'll believe it when I see it.

[jmd161]

Tai Chi

Translation = Tai Chi = " Ulltimate Fist " .

Nuff said!


jmd161

[ryanhall]

Tai Chi

Translation = Tai Chi = " Ulltimate Fist "

Nuff said!

I am overwhelmed by the evidence in support of your arguement

[chris davis 200]

ryanhall,

Firstly thankyou for the mature and polite post, quite a rarety on these boards!

I'm aware that Tai Chi has a very large amount of respect in the East as a martial art. Here in the US of A, it is a joke.

I agree with the US thing - to be honest most of the MA's that i have seen in the US are largely rubbish - (by no means ment to offend!) americans seem to proclaim themselves masters without any real training - (again a gross generallisation - but based on observation) I know of some exceptional practitioners in the US in many styles. Hardly any in Tai chi though! BK Frantzis is probably the only one that comes to mind.

My comment was directed to the "special powers" that one receives. That idea is just nonsense. Unfortunately, human beings cannot use their minds to lift objects or become impervious to bullets.

LOL - I thoughroughly agree, although a tai chi practitioner myself and a believer in Chi, I do not think that tai chi's fighting prowess is down to it! As i have said before - its more about tying people up, and aligning yourself correctly!

As far as combat goes, never doing any resistance training or serious combat training can not do anything except hurt your ability to function in a fight.

Who said tai chi doesnt do full on HARD sparring! Of course it does! But the mind set is different. If you attampt to resist something and that thing is bigger and stronger than you what will happen?? You will Loose. simple. Tai chi teaches you not to resist. It shows you that resisting is not necisary, again a diffent mindset to the likes of MT. You are basing this opinion on your experience of fighting i take it? But there are many ways to fight, and learning to stand there and slugg it out with someone that may be bigger and stronger than you seems a bit nuts!

A Tai Chi man with the same amount of time would be dead because he hadn't learned how to apply what he had learned

Agreed. I do think that if you are starting tai chi from scratch - it will take a while! But as i say - most peple that seriously seek out a tai chi teacher of some repute solely for martial arts will have
done some MA training before. My Main art has always been Traditional JJ but i have trained in MT, Karate, Judo, ninjutsu and hsing i. and for me tai chi has made me a far more efficient and powerful FIGHTER, than any of these other arts. I regularly cross spar, in fact today i trained with a semi pro boxer (featherweight) and a wing chun instructor (both friends of mine) and they were both imensly impressed with tai chi applications against there respective style, and i delbt with them well. In sparring i came out on top. (by sparring i mean - both with gloves but nothing else - and a lets go at it attitude!! not a tap tap tap thing!)

They cannot run/block/dodge forever--nobody can. Put a professional boxer in there, and I'd like to see them come out alive, much less unscathed.

In tai chi you do not run block etc - you stay right where you are or advance on them, you dont block - what is the point, pwr vs pwr again, you yeald. In tai chi you do not do this sort of thing forever - you move the opponent around, opening his gaurd out as he attacks - (real hard to describe so i wont try) then when you have a 'gate' to attack, you do with your whole body behind it. That is what makes the mechanics on internal arts special, you learn to deal with hard and soft attacking styles, in an art such as MT you dont, you just trust that the guy will always be in your sights and your attacks will be met with resistance. In my experience.

I don't believe in the small, frail, and extremely deadly Chinese masters that supposedly exist. Everyone talks about them, but it's always "I've met so and so and they are incredible." I want to see it before I put any faith in it.

and so would i!

Cheers
Chris

[jmd161]

Originally posted by ryanhall


I am overwhelmed by the evidence in support of your arguement

Thanks,

It was'nt said to impress you ,but i'm glad it did.

Tai Chi is usually taught for exercise here in the U.S. ,but it's alot more than that.There is a misconseption that it takes yrs to be able to fight and that there is no sparring in Tai Chi.Both are wrong!

It depends on your teacher and the way he is teaching you.I'll admit it does take a little longer in Tai Chi ,but that is only to be able to use it properly.By that i mean being able to fully understand how to flow and bring out the power in quick short burst.Internal energy is no joke you can seriously do damage to your own body if you don't know what you are doing.People that make fun of things like Tai Chi usually do so because they have no idea what it involves.It's easy to make fun of something when you have no idea what it's like.

I'm not here to change or even try and change anyone's mind on Tai Chi.Just dropping some knowledge on anyone interested.

jmd161

[Tai Chi Fighter]

There are many Americans out there who claim to be "masters", but the real question is how can we tell who is a true master and who is not.

You see a true master would not brag about how many matches they've won, or how many trophies they have, A true master would be modest and humble. So when you find a true master you'll just KNOW.

[Ahoym8e]

lots of tai chi masters in Pride and the UFC, KOFC, etc. they are really taking all the cake lately

[jubaji]

Originally Posted by Tai Chi Fighter

You see a true master would not brag about how many matches they've won, or how many trophies they have, A true master would be modest and humble. So when you find a true master you'll just KNOW.

Kind of like how I just KNOW you are a young kid romanticising the martial arts?