Serious question.. serious help needed.

[Hatsuharu]

I need help making a fist. I can't make a proper fist. I guess I can make a fist, but my fingers don't go as far down the palm as other people's. So here's my beef. When I punch a flat surface, say a wall, with nearly straight arm, straight wrist, the knuckles that are closer to the finger nails will touch the wall before the knuckles that connect the fingers to the base of the hand. I believe that the two types of knuckles should hit at the same time, making a flat connection with a flat surface. Mine doesn't do that, however. It has about 45 degrees to go in order to be flat!

Here. Let me try to demonstrate:

] = Wall

|_ = Normal flat fist

/_ = My retarded fist

Now for the contact of fist to wall, aka flat surface:

]|_ = Normal fist against flat surface wall.

]/_ = Retarded fist against flat surface wall.

Notice that the second one, the bottom knuckels, the ones closer to the nails, will hit before the top knuckles (the knuckles that connect the base of the hand to the fingers.) The top one, however, the bottom and top knuckles will hit at the same time making a flat impact.

Can someone please help me?

[Sharp Phil]

Well, I'm a bit biased in that I don't do horizontal punches -- I only punch vertically. It sounds, though, like you're not getting your fingers tucked in properly.

Try this: roll your fingers, curling them into the palm of your hand as tightly as possible. Done right, your fist will be a solid lump.

Or you could just start punching with a loose fist, but I wouldn't recommend it.

[Hatsuharu]

Originally posted by Sharp Phil
[B]Well, I'm a bit biased in that I don't do horizontal punches -- I only punch vertically. It sounds, though, like you're not getting your fingers tucked in properly.

Try this: roll your fingers, curling them into the palm of your hand as tightly as possible. Done right, your fist will be a solid lump.B]

I've tried that already. My fingers aren't as flexible as others. My friend can do it, and it seem so generic and simple, that I feel so dumb and depressed knowing that I cannot do it.

[ryanhall]

Maybe if you wouldn't punch walls, your fists would be in better operating order

[Kingston]

Does it hurt you knuckles when you punch? I meant does it feel like your knuckles will pop if your fingers are forces further down the palm? if not i wouldn't worry about it.

Im not sure if this would work for you, but when i broke my finger, after it healed i couldn't bent it like the other fingers, giving me the same problem you have, but only on my index finger. Prety much i just forced it back over time.... breaking a bone is completely different then your case though. keep trying what sharp phil is saying. Do you notice any improvement at all when you try it? If so, you mite be able to work on your "finger" flexibility.

If it happens to be a problem with how the bone had formed of something all that stuff mite not work...If you find thats the case, there are many different ways to hit people without using fists..

Dont be self conciouse about it, it wont help anything.

a little off topic, i know a guy who has a similar problem with hid elbow, he cant extend it straite, most he can do is about a 35 degree angle....another person at the place i train seems to only be able to manage about a 10 degree angle, only difference is he notices the armbares alot sooner then other people...

basicaly this is how i see it (and im no expert) if its from an injury its not permanent, if its just how your bones developed, then you mite have to live with it.....

hey your still a thousand times more lucky then the starving children in africa, a little problem with your knuckles ain the end of the world.

[Hatsuharu]

I just feel bad becoz if I ever got into a fight, I'd end up breaking my fist pretty easily, which means I'm strictly limited to using my legs and grapples.

[eXcessiveForce]

believe it or not. there are martial arts styles out there that do punch with the first knuckles as you describe.

It sounds like you may have very short fingers.

if this concerns you, try vertical punches or palm strikes and elbows.

[Sharp Phil]

Yes, I'll second that -- learn to do palm strikes, palm-heel strikes, and edge-of-hand blows. Then the fist issue will be moot.

[DRLashambe]

Hatsuhara:

It may seem like a strange place for a martial artist to get a solution for, but I think you should look for help in a music store. What you're describing is fairly common amongst guitar players, and I recall that there's a device that helps you exercise your fingers for greater flexibility.

[Bri Thai]

Some people's hands are just like that. It is all about the relative lenghts of different parts of your finger.

Don't worry about it. It makes little difference in a gloved hand and, if you're fighting for real, you should be using open handed blows anyway, as even the guys that canmake a fist get their hands mangled if they punch.

[Szczepankiewicz]

Maybe if you wouldn't punch walls, your fists would be in better operating order

That's the ticket!

I have to agree with my arch nemisis (Bri Thai), resident girlie man (RyanHall) and the Dojo of Death Master (Sharp Phil) that punching with knuckles is hard on the hand and there are many alternatives.

Hammerfists use the same part of the hand as the palm heel, which is the same muscle as the chop uses. You can use these strikes to minimize damage to your own hand and eliminate the need to strike 'soft targets'.

I will try to write up a small paper on the two styles of fist we use. Then, if you understand them, and you can use them great. If you don't understand them, I iwll try again. Or if you don't like them, then you can ignore my advice.

Spanky

[platinum_angel]

oh i get it( i think). have you gone to the doctor yet and checked it out. i have heard of a disease like that before were your knuckles get really stiff. or mabye it is somekind of genetic disorder i would go get it checked out.

or you could break your fingers and then let them heal in the formation of a fist

[Hatsuharu]

I saw a disease like that, too. I think it's called carpal tunnel disease. Anyways, I think it's my bone structure, but if there was anything I could do to fix it, I'd do it.

[Hatsuharu]

Originally posted by DRLashambe
Hatsuhara:

It may seem like a strange place for a martial artist to get a solution for, but I think you should look for help in a music store. What you're describing is fairly common amongst guitar players, and I recall that there's a device that helps you exercise your fingers for greater flexibility.

BTW, I used to play guitar, but I don't think that's the case with this one. Or maybe it is, but no matter how much I shove my fingers in (and I mean pushing them in with the other arm!), it won't go flat.

[eXcessiveForce]

I had some students from the same family that had your problem. It also affected their toes to some degree. They had been to many specialists and were told that is was an undiagnosed syndrome.

They had trouble making fists as you describe, they also could not really curl their toes down very well or pull them back for kicking.

I believe in their case the cause was genetic.

From what you have said you are not describing carpral tunnel syndrome which is caused by overuse. And you are not describing arthritis (stiff painful joints) as someone suggested above.

If you are concerned I would suggest speaking with a doctor or possibly a physical therapist to see if they have any ideas that will help in your situtation.

good luck, but don't let this slow you down on your training. Learn to use the tools you have, if your problem cannot be fixed don't worry about the tools you don't have.