I have a question

[TKDMaster]

Ok, I was wondering...how accurate is tae kwon do with street fighting? I know my name is TKD Master...that is just the name of my school. Anyway I'm only a purple belt and I'm just wondering if it's a martial art worth taking or is it just a complete joke? Please if this post has been put up or if it's a stupid question don't criticize me because I'm new to the forum and I'm not a martial arts expert.

[Kingston]

For street defence.....TKD would be at the bottom of my list, just my opinion. It seems that the general concensus on this forum is that TKD should not be taken as good preperation for "the real world"

TKD is not a complete joke, Iv heard that some Schools have modified there style of TKD to better suit real life situations.....even then its not the "best" possible style for self defence.

This opinion is just from what iv read on this, and other, forums... iv had very little accual TKD practice...But from what i did experience was it was good exercise....and could even be very fullfilling, but i would not be to confident in a "Real Life" situation.

just my two cents, i aint trying to bash TKD, just giving my honest opinion. for whatever its worth.

[ryanhall]

My friend, you have just opened pandora's box. Good luck.

[COGATO]

Well, here I am about to get flamed defending my beloved TKD. I for one am a much better fighter for having taken it. Most peoples arguments against TKD is that its moves are very flashy and impractical, thats only because most of them lack the flexibility and power with it to actually execute a 540 jump spinning heel kick with effectivness. So what Im getting at is, its never the martial art, but the martial artist and his devotion. Any kick from a simple front kick to a jump spin crescent has the potential to kill depending on who it comes from. If you look at most martial arts, they contain almost the exact same techniques just in different orders in thier forms or katas. Like Karate and Taekwondo, I have a friend who is a Karate black belt and we have almost the exact same techniques. And I know someone will argue, WELL SOME MARTIAL ARTS ARE MAINLY GROUND TECHNIQUES or whatever, well my response to that is, take BJJ and Judo, both mostly grapples and throws right (Im not skilled in either but im going on what I have read and seen, if im wrong about them just imagine that they are both as I say because I know out there somewhere there are two martial arts that match my descriptions, just humor me and pretend that BJJ and Judo are them). Well im telling you now, just about every BJJ artist is going to tell you that BJJ is much better than Judo and every Judo artist will tell you vise versa. The point is most of thier techniques are exactly the same, it all comes down to which artist delivers them, the same goes with TKD and anything else, so if you are training TKD then do the best you can, practice those jump spin kicks and scissor kicks till they contain power and accuracy and I guarantee they will serve a real world purpose, if you train them to.

[ryanhall]

I thought I could avoid this, but I guess not. Uhhh...sorry, but I have a responsibility to disagree with you. TKD's training methods and tools are not sufficient or appropriate for self defense. I don't care who you are, you can not execute a spinning heel kick without stretching and while wearing jeans with any kind of non-telegraphic movement and power. The man matters more than the system, but the tools are important as well. Impractical is impractical. If I practice my rear cross, lead straight, hooks, knees, and elbows, while you practice your crescent kicks, roundhouse snap kicks, head-level push kicks, and hip puches, you will be in some serious trouble if we ever get into it. Efficiency is efficiency, and TKD isn't it. The fact that the techniques are contained in karate is no surprise, as Korean Tae Kwon Do is a bastardization of Japanese Karate--it's karate with more emphasis on the feet. Many will argue that the artist is all that matters, but they are incorrect. When it comes down to two individuals on the same level, the mentality of the fighter, as well as the tools he uses are the deciding factors in victory or defeat. TKD will never (OK, there may be some exception, but not likely) beat Muay Thai in a set match. That's just the way it is. You used Judo as an example. Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is superior on the ground. Judo is superior in the takedown. Boxing has better hands than Muay Thai. Muay Thai has the advantage of knees, elbows, and a hell of a hook kick. Some ways are better than others. That's like saying that a muzzle loading black powder rifle with an expert marksman will outshoot a high powered sniper rifle with an average trigger man. Logically flawed. Just one guy's opinion (with some evidence).

[COGATO]

Matter of fact I buy my jeans to where I can do jump spin kicks in them, I can easily complete any technique you like without stretching. But the only way we could ever test either of our ideas would be if we were to fight. How about that. This may just answer my most previous post (Fighters Impulse). Do you live anywhere close to Texas by chance?

[ryanhall]

I tell you what: you go get into a REAL fight with someone who can actually handle themselves, and then you try a spinning jump kick. You could also try the local boxing club, as I'm sure they woudl give you a chance to beat them all down . I honestly hope that your 2 years of TKD serve you well. If not, then we may have to postpone your challenge match for a while. By the way, Virginia is not near Texas--note the location marker under the name.

[eXcessiveForce]

okay, I wasn't going to post any comments to this but I'm going to be drawn in one way or the other so i'll just start now.

I too can throw just about every technique with out stretching. I can also throw many kicks without telegraphing.

Now i have 20 years TKD training so I will admit that I can do many things that my students are not yet capable of.

I do not know any good TKD school that Teaches HIp punches. ONly WTF and ITF teach those as far as I know. In songahm TKD punches are throw in color belt ranks in such a way to teach proper hip movement. But at blackbelt level they are delivered just like boxing punches.

Snap kicks can generate extrodinary speed and can hit a target if properly executed with knockout power.

Untrained fighters expecting an attacker to punch often are hit with kicks that they will tell you they never saw. Even my students must ask from time to time what they were hit with. They are unable to tell if it was a kick or a punch or from what side the technique originated from.

Kicks must not always be delivered to the head.

Most people should not try to throw a spin kick in a real altercation however they can be thrown much like a walkaway punch and catch a advancing attacker at very high speed off the back leg.

I am able to throw head high kicks while in boxing range. And I can throw kicks with enough force to bread the ribs while standing shoulder to shoulder.

I will admit that both WTF and ITF TKD are worthless for self defense. I will also admit that most songahm TKD aren't worth much and don't even know how to execute half of the material in the system. But TKD can be very valuable for defence if trained properly and critically.

TKD also usus fluid shock kicks and kicks with the shin as the striking surface. In otherwords muay thai kicks. These are not used in point sparring and may not be drilled enough in most schools but they are part of TKD.

okay enough about that.

Train, Learn, adapt, and use common sense

I like fake hish spin hook kick drop spin sweep to the knees.

Against an untrained fighter just eliminate the fake. because they will either stand there and you can throw the kick, or you can let them move in and get hit with the kick, or just sweep them. If they advance to quickly spin side kick to the ribs followed with a nice spin back fist right behind. or elbow if you prefer.

You must know your tools well, and you must know the strategy of those tools if you wish to use them.

Most people say they have taken TKD and they know if it is worthwhile or not. If you are not blackbelt level you don't know anything about TKD.

TKD philosophy is that the color belts are like kindergarten through high school. lower black belt levels are like college and the begining of real life.

anybody that tries to use 360 jump spin kicks on a regular basis in real altercations will end up dead it doesn't mean they could never be thrown but it would be once in a blue moon.

Okay enough for now.

[ryanhall]

EF,
I agree with your post for the most part. My major qualm was with:

thats only because most of them lack the flexibility and power with it to actually execute a 540 jump spinning heel kick with effectivness

My point was that training high percentage moves will get you a lot further than training lower percentage ones. Kicking is VERY overrated for self defense. I'd just like to point that out. Legs are better used for mobility.

[YeLLa-TiGeR]

I used to compete in WTF TKD long ago, I was in for about 8-9 years. Even when I was in it for that long, I was never that disillusioned about making my jump kicks work regularly in the streets. I competed both in Olympic TKD and was on competitive demonstration team. I did my share of jump spin hook kicks to hit apples off swords and triple jump front snap kicks. I can only look at this thread and shake my head.

And if you think BJJ and Judo have the exact same techniques through and through, you are on crack. Though they may bear some similarities with basic technqiues such as the armbar and some throws, thats where the similarities end. BJJ has thousands and endless techniques that Judo cannot even begin to touch when it comes to the ground game. As for Judo, their balance and coordniation on their throwing game cannot be touched by any BJJ who has not crosstrained or concentrated on throws and countering them. You are what you train and both of these MAs concentrate and focus on very different aspects. Your point? Useless and false.



Both arts complement each other very well though.


As for TKD's spin kicks and acrobatic techniques having real world applications, that is plain BS pure and simple. Street altercations cannot be covered by conventional MA anyhow. Fights aren't one on one in the street and they dont come head on for you to use your spin techniques. They come at you by behind or transpire from a sucker punch at a head to head staredown.


Hey COGATO
Have you even been in a streetfight? Did you take off your shoes and socks and do some stretches before fighting? Maybe slipped on a hogu and shinguards? Seriously, I was scratching my head at your post. I thought you were trolling. How long have you been TKD? What is your rank? Not even my sa bum neem was trying to pull off that B.S. to us.

Even though I am in Muay Thai and BJJ, I am not disillusioned aout kicking ass on the street. The truth is there is no winner and loser on the street, only people that have survived and even then they probably ended up getting charged with assault and other legal penalties.


I got to laugh at the so called "stratagies" for the street. Most street fights start off with some kind of verbal altercation. That is where your real fight is. When the first blow is thrown, you already lost.

If self defense is your priority the best training you can ever do is check your anger and be aware of your surroundings. Stay away from the bad areas, etc.

[TKDMaster]

Hmm.....Yella-Tiger I like your post...

[ryanhall]

Thank God for Yella-Tiger. At least somebody gets "it."

[YeLLa-TiGeR]

Thank you Ryan, I'm not a fountain of wisdom. I'm just not a ****in idiot.

Bottom line TKDMaster, keep your cool and ego in check. Then you will probably never have to worry about any street fights. If that does ever happen, run the **** away. Having assault charges is not fun.


TKD is a fun sport to compete in, and will teach you alot of useful things. Have fun with it and keep an open mind and maybe you'll end up doing other MAs and crosstrain like me, or just be happy where you are. Either way, just do whatever you feel like.

[ryanhall]

No need to be a fountain of wisdom, just possess a little common sense. Which isn't that common. Why do they call it that anyways? The only people who believe in flashy martial nonsense are those who have never been in a real fight.

[da_mill]

Against an untrained fighter just eliminate the fake. because they will either stand there and you can throw the kick, or you can let them move in and get hit with the kick, or just sweep them. If they advance to quickly spin side kick to the ribs followed with a nice spin back fist right behind. or elbow if you prefer.

Im not sure yet who else does muay thai here, I am only a beginner however I do practice it -

whats all this spin side kick shit? spin back fist? fake then sweep?

I know I hold no weight jus being new and all - but beg to differ. I did TKD for about two weeks and quit asap when I noted its uselessness. I dont understand why people want to do stuff like that - a much simpler more effective practice could be jab, cross, left thai kick at the knee. or even if you think someone is totally untrained or perhaps your worried bout their counter punch, just cross, then kick, which still leaves you with some guard.

Spinning what not? Anyone who does any ground art will stick you straight on your arse or possibly kill you? And any Muay thai-er would gladly kick you in the side/back of the knee if you turned around?

Perhaps im just missing the point here. :| ?