JuJutsu throwing vs. Judo throws

[Sensei Saki]

Tell me about its good qualities.Joke: a verbal remark or gesture designed to provoke laughter.

[treehugger]

Very informative post. Please do not misunderstand what I am about to say. I do not see how some of the techniques you describe could be pullled off against a fully resisting opponent, especially a trained fighter. No offence intended, but you gravely underestimate the benefits of 'sport' training. I can just as easily put my thumb in somebody's eye or pull hair for a takedown. There is no way on earth I would allow somebody to stomp on the side of my knee and collapse my leg... just not going to happen, sorry. Alot of the technique you describe, especially the pressure points, involve the use of fine motor skills, which are not reliable in a real fight. If I have misunderstood anything you have said I appologize. Most guys in this forum are here because we know the value of full speed, full power, full resistance training. This is the 'sport training' which you seem to quickly dismiss as not suited to battle. No disrespect intended at all,but I just do not agree with you. I am sure you have been in a real fight before, as most people have been in at least one, it is impossible to get through life without doing it once (ain't human nature grand? ), and you realize that it takes the wind out of you quickly. Well, 'sport' fighters are some of the best conditioned dudes you will ever find, which is HUGE in a street altercation. Sorry again, do not be offended, but you are preaching to the wrong congregation.

[Clooneytkd]

good post husanyan, i agree with all that was said. but the best thing to do for throws takedowns etc is wrestling. now for joint locks and submissions obviously jujitsu and judo and all that other stuff. if you told, say jujitsu person to take a good wrestler down it may not happen. i wrestled middle school and all highschool, i became good with throws, trips, armdrags, wizzers, anklepicks and getting the other guy whos dealing the same force to you off balance and down to the ground with force. wrestling is the best for grappling. if your a good enough wrestler and were tied up with someone who knew judo, you would be aware of every thing hes doing, and take him down easily, both styles are great for alot of things, but if grappling is the main focus wrestling is the better. dont be offended by what im saying, its not meant that way. all im saying is jujitsu and judo are great martial arts styles that depend on throws mostly to get the person down to a tap out postion. both have to many set ups that choreograph what the persons going to do next. in areal fight im not going to let someone grab my arm or wrist or grapple. i would obviously pummel to gain control or take him down quick with a trip or a sweep while he was working on the set up. now wrestling, you do what works. i found my own way of throwing, ankle picking, arm drags, your forced to find a way to catch the opponent of gaurd, and you will find more ways that work from doing wrestling than most if not all grappling martial arts. wreslting is the best for grappling, and being aware of the other persons movement, wrestling is not good for submissions or anything like that, thats obvious, but if i were to pick between any martial art for grappling reasons it would be wrestling. if you ever wrestled a state champion wrestler you would realize how difficult it actually was to take him down. your trained to take any situation and turn it to your advantage, martial arts dont do this effective. now no one needs to get hot headed i mean no harm. if anyone on these forums have wrestled and were good at it they would know what i was talking about and would feel no need to do any throwing martial art unless joint locks or submissions were incorporated.

[The_Judo_Jibboo]

Would it be possible to get the motto "To each his own" posted on the top of every page on this site? I think that's a thought that would prevent a lot of uneducated and over generalized statements.

clooney,
Wrestling works best for you, that's great, but it doesn't mean anything more than that. My sensei devotes a good amount of time in the beginning classes breaking wrestlers of bad habits. There are several guys in my class who have been doing wrestling longer than I've been doing judo, and I put them on the mat hard all the time. They put me down too, but only with their judo. Now, this is due in part to the fact that our sensei trains us with competition in the forefront of his mind, and knowing that a good number of judo competitors have a lot of wrestling experience, he's taught us to exploit the habits of wrestlers. Would things be different against wrestlers who were specifically taught how to fight good judokas? Of course. But the point is that when you find the martial art(s) that truly suit you, you make them your own and can adapt them to different challenges. That has been the most fun part of learning judo for me, when I realized I didn't need to have my hand on a guy's wrist to throw him, or that I could throw someone who wasn't wearing a gi.
And I'm not going to turn around and make myself a hypocrite by saying that judo is better either. I can definately respect wrestlers for plenty of reasons, and honestly I wish we fought in something more similar to a wrestling uniform because as it is now we're training primarily to throw someone who's wearing a kimono! The point I want to make is that there comes a point in training where you understand your chosen fighting art in a way that is personal and beyond anything that your sensei/instructor/coach explicitly taught you. That's when it really gets fun, and really becomes something more than just exercise.
There is no ultimate fighting art. There isn't even a martial art that is the ultimate in any one category like grappling or striking. If there was everyone would just adopt that style or the aspects of that style and we would have all been doing the same martial art by now.

[Clooneytkd]

hey i agree with you 100% basically all that i say is my opinion, and people can say its bs, thats fine with me, i welcome it happily. if there are habits that need to be broken its only because the master or the teacher of that martial art has never done wrestling before, or never heard of it. they want you to do it there way, because its the only way they know how to. im not saying your teacher does that, but most do. they are used to staying true to the form, so if that means that a wrestler accidently goes in his stance, when learning judo, or does something else, the teacher wont like it because its not the form that is being taught. does that mean it dosnt work? no it dosnt. now habits, what habits? its simple to see bad habits from a judo stand point, but a bad habit that works cant be that bad of a habit. now i havnt fought any judo praticioners, so i cant say anything, neither have i learned judo. but if im in a fight im going to do it fast and no bad habits will be shown because your doing what works and its up to you to figure that out. what im trying to get at is that wrestling prepared me for basically all grappling, i have wrestled some tough s.o.b's its up to you to fix whatever wrong your doing in a match,and do it fast at that. most is common sense, and most is skill. im not saying anything bad about judo or senseis. its just that they dont know what works for you, so they teach you the way that works for them. no disses intended.

[The_Judo_Jibboo]

The main habit that I was referring to was bending over as low as wrestlers do. If you go in all bent like that on a good judoka you'll end up on the ground fast.
You know, it sounds like you may like judo more than you think. Judo is primarily a sport (now, I know that's not what Kano envisioned) and as such we train alot like wrestlers. Each class is entirely comprised of conditioning and randori (sparring). There are definately no forms or kata.

"...a fight im going to do it fast and no bad habits will be shown because your doing what works and its up to you to figure that out."

That's exactly what my sensei is all about, making your judo your own. I'm talking from my own experience, I know there are schools that teach kata and even self-defence judo schools but most are now sport oriented. So much just depends on the teacher in whatever field you're pursuing.
And I know you didn't intend any disses, and neither did I. Sounds like we're coming from different arts but pretty similar mindsets.

[Clooneytkd]

yes i would like to do judo, but am currently doing tae kwon do here http://www.swparktaekwondo.com/index.html i am doing tkd because i need a style with some distance. and seeing as how your legs are stronger than your arms its good to learn how to kick with some force. i dont see why everyone is trashing tkd. within the second day i was doing turn kicks, fronk kicks and spin kick with a couple punching combos in the mix and caught on fast. for some reason people think that all these martial arts are better than another. when really its personal preference. i prefere wrestling over judo, dosnt mean judo is bad, it just means it just means i rather kick someone in the face and learn something new. ive also learned some punches as well. i tried one on my brothers jaw while he was coming at me with muay thai moves. so all you MT lovers go kick a tree because no one cares. each martial art is different, i just wish people would stop being such d-bags and fight each other instead of claiming which one was better.

[Tant01]

Originally Posted by Clooneytkd

.....all that i say is my opinion, and people can say its bs, thats fine with me, i welcome it happily. .....

. now i havnt fought any judo praticioners, so i cant say anything, neither have i learned judo. ..... (but) im not saying anything bad about judo....

From your earlier post; "the best thing to do for throws takedowns etc is wrestling...if your a good enough wrestler and were tied up with someone who knew judo, you would be aware of every thing hes doing, and take him down easily, both styles are great for alot of things, but if grappling is the main focus wrestling is the better. ...all im saying is jujitsu and judo are great martial arts styles that depend on throws mostly to get the person down to a tap out postion. both have to many set ups..."


Disrespect intended. Puff up your wrestling all you want but don't try to spoon feed us this BS...

Not trying to be polite.

Go try your wrestling at a decent Judo club and then your opinion might be worth something.

[jubaji]

Originally Posted by Clooneytkd

if your a good enough wrestler and were tied up with someone who knew judo, you would be aware of every thing hes doing, and take him down easily.

Easy with the generalizations, champ. It would depend on who the wrestler was and who the judoka, right?

[jubaji]

Originally Posted by Tant01

Disrespect intended. Puff up your wrestling all you want but don't try to spoon feed us this BS...

Not trying to be polite.

Go try your wrestling at a decent Judo club and then your opinion might be worth something.

Easy with the generalizations, champ. It would depend on who the wrestler was and who the judoka, right?

[Tant01]

It might Ju, it might...


And I might be the 135# white belt that choked out a state champ...

[jubaji]

Originally Posted by Tant01

It might Ju, it might...


And I might be the 135# white belt that choked out a state champ...

Then you choked out a person, right? An art didn't choke out an art, right?

[The_Judo_Jibboo]

Originally Posted by jubaji

Then you choked out a person, right? An art didn't choke out an art, right?

Fantastic point! Easily my favorite thing I've seen you say jubaji

[Tant01]

Originally Posted by jubaji

Then you choked out a person, right? An art didn't choke out an art, right?

Right, wrestling went to sleep in Judo's arms...

[jubaji]

Originally Posted by Tant01

Right, wrestling went to sleep in Judo's arms...

Well then, I guess I've been fortunate to experience judo getting its ass tossed around by Wrestling on a number of occaisions.

We've got to get these two kids to play together nicer.