Self Defense BJJ

[CHOKE UK]

I agree with ice pheonix.

What position are you in???????

Forget what the bjja move may be called !

THE FACT IS THAT THE SO CALLED MOVES, actually RELATE TO REAL LIFE SITUATIONS THAT YOU WILL FIND YOURSELF IN WHEN IT GOES TO GROUND !

So you must state is he ontop of you ?

next to you? etc etc,

AN ANSWER CAN ONLY BE GIVEN WHEN YOU ACCURATELY DESCRIBE THE EXACT POSITIONS YOU ARE BOTH IN.

THESE ARE NOT MOVES AS IN KATA THAT ARE NOT REALISTIC.

There are many positions on the ground.
The ground can be more technical than a stand up fight.

I think you just have a vague idea of the exact situation,
but would like an accurate answer.
THEY ARE CONTRADICTIONS IN TERMS.

[Ryu (JKD?)]

I think what Ryan means (if I may be so bold) is that the strategic mindset and awareness of the situation is more important right at that moment then the physical skills you are going to employ. Say you have wonderful skills at grappling, and physicality to boot. You immediately pull butterfuly guard, hoist him up, and beautifully sweep him over so that you are now in mount. You continue to pulverize him, but don't have any idea about the guy behind you that belts you over the head with a brick, or begins to stab you from behind with a boot knife.
Having the proper situational assessment means that you would have seen the person's friend there as well, and would have made a better choice (to kick out a leg, and shrimp yourself backwards and back up to your feet possibly, to run and get the hell out of there.)

That being said, ANYTHING you do requires the proper attributes and physicality to pull off. This is a two sided coin, guys, and you can't have one without the other. You need the physical and the psychological to survive.
So in having the right situational awareness and savvy to make the right tactical choices, you still need the physical attributes required to make those tactics work in a do or die situation.

If, however, you're exceptionally aware of the psychological and behavioral aspects of the threat, there's a good chance you can avoid it or possibly end it before you get into that type of position.

It's one thing to say and another to do however...

Ryu

[ryanhall]

think what Ryan means (if I may be so bold) is that the strategic mindset and awareness of the situation is more important right at that moment then the physical skills you are going to employ.

Exactly. The move or technique that you choose to employ in a given situation is a result of the situtation developing around you, not the 'best' move you could use.

That being said, ANYTHING you do requires the proper attributes and physicality to pull off. This is a two sided coin, guys, and you can't have one without the other. You need the physical and the psychological to survive.

Agreed. You have to be able to do what is necessary, and good attributes will help that. If you are morbidly obese or very underweight, you can't expect to be able to execute when it counts. That said, the psychological aspect of the situation is definitely more important. All the physical skills in the world might not even come into play if you don't work the situation properly. Moreover, you might win that fight but lose after your assailant's friends (that you didn't notice or pay attention to) come over there to assist.

If, however, you're exceptionally aware of the psychological and behavioral aspects of the threat, there's a good chance you can avoid it or possibly end it before you get into that type of position.

Agreed again. Still, being fast, strong, agile, and having good stamina can do nothing but help.

[tigercats12]

i love all the people talking about armbars like they wont work in a real fight.. someone said the armbar you see in the ufc.. well that is a great position in a fight.. if you manage to get this BIG guy into a cross arm bar, not only can you hyper extend or break his arm but if you cross your inner leg over the trapped arm(to keep it trapped) your other leg is in PERFECT POSITION to kick the living crap out of his head, face and throat.. trust me that will end the majority of fights.

[Ryu (JKD?)]

The people here are not saying armbars don't work on the street. I've personally used the Americana on a guy while we fought on cement. Plus used it in other less serious challenge matches, etc.

What people are saying here, however, is that you must be careful of your surroundings when you're in a streetfight. Laying cross-side like that may be great since the guy under you is getting his arm snapped like a twig.....however, you're incredibly vulnerable to another assailant, someone who decides to just jump into the fight for whatever reason (lots of people like taking cheap shots for thrills) etc.

It's not that you can't use them, it's that you need the psychological attributes to know when to use them.

Ryu

[tigercats12]

i agree totally!!! i was posting in response to this quote

"i never once in my life bashed bjj, i bashed the armbar for a street fight (the "classic" armbars like you see in the UFC, wile on the ground that is,"

that is what i was talking about..

[Ryu (JKD?)]

Ah. I see.

Ryu

[Ice Phoenix]

Originally posted by tigercats12
i agree totally!!! i was posting in response to this quote

"i never once in my life bashed bjj, i bashed the armbar for a street fight (the "classic" armbars like you see in the UFC, wile on the ground that is,"

that is what i was talking about..

Further proof of the fact that indeed, Kingston does not know what he is talking about.

[Kingston]

lol. sure 1v1 that armbar would work. but the sacrifices you have to make to acomplish that move are not worth it. for seld defence purposes.

get real people. Not to mention the ground is a much less "comfotable" possition to be in "on the streets". ground stuff is needed only when your on the ground, you shouldn't want to go there. So, if you end up there, youv made your first mistake.

lol pheonix i dont know how that quote proves i dont know what im talking about.

if i see my buddy getting his armbroke, and getting kicked in the head or whatever im gunna stop it.

lying on the ground like that preocupied with an armbar is a green light for any and all his friends to kick your head in.

the nature of the move is to break the guys arm, thats what an armbar does (wether the person choses to go that far is the only question)

that would be a move that can escalate a situation to involve friends, of the guy who just got his arm broke to pull a weapon or anything else to get you off his arm.

of course armbars "work" youll get the guy in an armbar, break his arm whatever.....what happens next? he says "your the better fighter, im stupid for getting myself in this situation, the broken arm is a good lesson for me to learn" OR 1. his friends jump in escalating the situation (any move that does that can hurt your defence just as much as help it) 2. he pulls a weapon and shoots or stabs your ass. not to mention payback. Not to mention him pressing charges on you.

for self defence, some armbars are good, the one that we are talking about is not.

the armbar "works", it realy just depends on the situation.

wile you have him in a armbar thinking "yes i got him, its over"

ill be thinking "please god please dont let another guy join in,.... oh shit is that a knife?"

[Szczepankiewicz]

lol pheonix i dont know how that quote proves i dont know what im talking about.

No, it's just a compilation of all your previous posts COMBINED with that quote that supports his argument.

Man, I really missed arguing trivial hypotheticals with you knuckleheads.



Spanky

[darrianation]

My two cents. I agree with most of the posters here. Ryan,Ice to name a couple.

Mistakes have already been made, but if your on the ground with someone on top of you I hope to hell you know somthing about grappling.

First: I would try like hell not to let him take me down. I would pancake out if he went in for my legs ( I use to wrestle so I'm good at that).
second: If he did take me down I'd tie him up so he can not puch the shit out of me.
Third: If he has friends then o' hell your in big trouble. Hope you have health insurance.

Now I am not a grappler. So I dont have alot of specific ground techniques. So I will capitulate the ground theniques to those who know them.

[Roland]

There's always the option of curling up, going fetal and whimpering, "My wallet and car keys are in my front pockets!"

[shasan]

There are nine ways to kill from the fetal position.

no, really.

[Rockets]

Reference Nog vs Sapp in Pride. Go and do likewise.