Breaking fists when punching?

[chris davis 200]

Hi ppl,

There was a recent thread about hurting your hands when punching. there was alot of talk about MT and boxing people breaking their fists etc. This got me to thinking...

If your art is based around punching and fist techniques, surely you should know how to punch? How to target areas that are not capable of breaking your fist (no bone on bone).

I am not saying that boxers etc dont know how to punch! Obviously they do!!! But are they taught the correct places to punch in order to minimise damage to themselves and maximise it in the other person? I guess this is the trouble with using boxing gloves, you are not use to impacting your fist into anything other than the padding of the glove.

think about it, if you are a boxer, and in a situation you break your fist quite badly, you have have basically halved your attacking opions!! this seems quite stupid to me!!

I train with a boxer, he has broken his fist twice and got a kicking cause of it!! I have never hurt my fist in a fight, but then again i dont strike very often using boxing type punches.

Maybe this is the floor in competition based formats such as boxing?? too little weapons, so if they are taken away, your screwed!

Just some thoughts.

cheers
Chris

[cyrijl]

you can break your hand in a fight using just about any punch. Going full strength and not connecting properly can lead to a broken hand or wrist. I hurt my wrist because as i punch my target moved in such a way that my wrist bent. In a fighting situation things like that can happen...you could just as easily try to kick someone and kick a shin with your toes...that doesn't mean you don't know how to kick.

[chris davis 200]

Im not saying that boxers dont know how to punch - Im not that stupid.

Just saying that if your a boxer or a punch based fighter and you break your fists, what are your opions! not very many.

pumalling into someone with a load of punches is gonna get you somesort of injury, hitting elbow, back of head or anything else that is about.

Hitting someone at more oppotune times when they will inflict the most damage and not hurt you works for me and is far better than jumping in at there face.

cheers
chris

[Lost Ronin]

Whenever you punch somebody you are at risk of breaking your hand. You have to train your hands and wrist to make sure that this doesn't happen. I would never punch anybody in the back of the head, I would use palm strikes or hammerfists. You have to be selective of the targets that you hit, that is the best way to make sure that you don't break your hands. My karate master used to make me do tons of two knuckle push ups, I alwasy wondered why I had to do so many, but now I understand, my wrists are very strong, I barely ever hurt when I am punching somebody or doing heavy bag work. The reason why boxers and MT guys break their hands is because they are used to being heavily protected. Try doing bag work with wraps on only, once you are good at that try it with light cloth over your knuckles. Focus on keeping your wrist straight, before you know it, you're punching bare knuckle and you are doing fine. Hope this helps.

[chris davis 200]

the majority of striking that i would do are palm strikes anyway. I have very strong wrists from alot of JuJutsu practice so i dont have a problem with punching really.

Excellent post above, this is basically the advice that i give. I am not one for hardening the outer surfaces of the fist, but more for being selective of targets when using a fist technique.

People also often just go straight in for the head and face. I have often wondered why this is.

Why not take the tools of your opponent from them, attacking the arms, hands and legs so that they have no real effective attack/guard anymore. Brusing up someones face is good sometimes but taking out someones knee will end the encounter quicker. if you cant walk, you aint gonna be too up for fighting.

I just wonder what MT/ boxers do if they break their fist in a fight. anyone in here been in that possition? (talking just Boxing or MT not people from the MMA scene)

Cheers
cHris

[Szczepankiewicz]

We don't learn punching techniques until black belt for this very reason. I see a lot of footage and photos of MA students punching starting right out of the chute.

Using knuckle pushups and other training methods to strengthen your supporting muscle groups and condiditon your knuckles is a good idea, when done in moderation. All things in moderation eh?

However, if you are talking about SD or fighting you would be well served to have other practical tools in your toolbox. Kicks, knee strikes, elbow strikes, grappling etc.

We have a general rule about strikes, you can't use it if you can't break with it. I demonstrate this idea by asking folks to do what I do with any strike they want to use. I can execute full power strikes on the support beams in our dojo with only a little discomfort. I have yet to find a visitor who will strike the beam with a traditional punch.....

[darrianation]

I've hurt my hand only twice from punching (more than a bruise or just being sore).The first time I was 12 and just starting in karate. My instructor explained and showed the the propper way to punch . However about 6 weeks into lessons during sparring( started sparring about our 3rd day at the dojo). I went in for kill against my sparring partner A nice revearse punch to his ribs. I knew I had to get it in there fast So I threw it pretty hard(not to hurt him just so he would not have time to block it). Well he brought his knee up(he was more experianced and saw it coming). I punched his knee and dislocated my wrist. I was a novice and I was stupid! (we did not use gloves or equipment during our sparring)

The second time I was 14 and my mom made me mad(dont remember why now)and I punched out a dresser. Even though I knew how to punch by then in my rage I hit with my last 2 knuckles right on the corner. Broke the bone in my hand right behind th 3rd knuckle. Again stupid!

Not to speak for anyone else but in my experiance since (26 years later), I think alot of us get a little sloppy at times specialy when fatigued or flustered with a fighter or heavy bag. we dont watch our technique and bam.ouch... The main differance is instead of broken wrist or knuckle our hand will just be sore for a day or two. Yes I am guilty from time to time of this. It's not that other boxers or punchers dont know how to punch, it's ethier they are not exprienced or they've bcame fatigued or just simply made a mistake. Of course I know none of you ever make mistakes.

[cyrijl]

Why not take the tools of your opponent from them, attacking the arms, hands and legs so that they have no real effective attack/guard anymore. Brusing up someones face is good sometimes but taking out someones knee will end the encounter quicker. if you cant walk, you aint gonna be too up for fighting.

The problem with this is that you don't want both of your hands tied up grappling if someone's buddy is waiting in the wings. Taking out the knees will not necessarily end a fight either. (Unless you break one) If you break someone's knee and you are not in absolutely serious danger, good luck...write me from prison (if you can then afford the stamp). Punching to the face is a little quicker than trading body blows...you're right sometimes a palm heal is better, but not always. Even palm strikes are can end up with injury

[chris davis 200]

The problem with this is that you don't want both of your hands tied up grappling if someone's buddy is waiting in the wings.

By taking out their arms etc - i did not really mean grappleing, what about striking the arms and hands. This is often a very vry good way to enduce a flinch responce and at that instant you attack the head or body. not many arts actually train to expect strikes to the hands of the guard.

If you break someone's knee and you are not in absolutely serious danger, good luck...write me from prison

Yeh i agree that Breaking is only for extreme situations.

dislocation of the knee cap or even striking the muscles just above the knee can seriously hinder an opponent. As can striking the triceps, forearm just below the elbow etc. These methods may not be the end of an encounter but they increase your chances somewhat.

Punching to the face is a little quicker than trading body blows

I agree. wasnt talking about body blows. But breaking someones jaw or nose is not that far away from breaking someones knee in the eyes of the law!!

Anyway back to the topic - what do boxers do if they break their fists?

cheers
Chris