Has anyone used aikido in real life situations?

[Toudiyama]

Originally posted by MrPoopy


I'll agree that wrist locks suck in a real fight. But throws? Come on. If I get thrown on my ass in Judo class does that make me a yes person, or does it mean I got tossed by someone because they knew what they were doing?
I don't think it's a good idea to build your whole game around throwing, but throws certianly have their place. Ryanhall must have been thinking about aikido wrist locks that turn into high flying throws.

And am I the only one that realizes how much Tank Abbot sucks?

A wristlock will not be a lock in real life rather it will break the joint if you don't move with it, I agree a 45 kg person won't do it with a 100 kg attacker because it will be near to impossible to even bend the wrist

But as it is with any technique, speed and tim
ing is of the essence
Even a Shoot done too slow, at the wrong time, won't work or even put you in a worse situation

throws are just as effective as punches and kicks in a real sisuation, only in a specific situation a certain technique might work better than another
Aikido is a controlling art not an eliminating art, it's techniques are great in controling people whom you do not want to hurt like in mental institutions or as a trainconductor

[chris davis 200]

regarding throws -

What would you prefer to be hit by> a fist? or unmovable peace of concrete? I know what i would choose.

When throwing an opponent you can do it with little damage (on mats in the dojo) you can do it with moderate damage, as per the dojo technique used in the street (throwing onto ground as per your dojo throw, lack off mats means moderate damage) Or you can fully disable the opponent by using the technique as it was intended.

To illustrate my point - lets take a simple hip throw.

In the dojo you throw the person onto their back, they land with a lovely breakfall and you continue practicing.

On the street, if you use the same technique, throw in the same way, and the untrained faller hits the concrete with a thug and damages their arm and leg, maybe their hip. whatever.

If you do the technique as intended in traditional systems. As you throw the person, when they are facing the ground you drop them verticly into the concrete, head/shoulder first, this would result in a broken neck, dislocated shoulder or a serious head injury.

Why would a proffessional warrior (samurai) throw someone nicely onto their back?? these where killing or disableing techniques used on battlefields and in every day fights between extremely hard people. Wrist locks were to break wrists and throw people down, other throws were to kill, disable or set up for weapon attacks.

When people talk about throwing and locking like it is just an addition to striking it makes me laugh. When you reach a level where you can diferenciate between training methods and the true technique behind the training method then you can see traditional arts for what they are, stunningly effective and sometimes brutel.

Ueshiba the founder of aikido broke hips, shoulders, arms, legs and knocked many a man out in his early days. In later years he became a bit of a hippy. Schools like yoshinkan that reflect this brutel early form of aikido are truer to the fighting art, later versions like ki aikido reflect a much more spiritual side.

Cheers
Chris

[darrianation]

Good explaination Chris. I totally agree with you on the throws.

[Tom Yum]

I agree with what you say about throws. Done properly at full speed, they can be very disorienting... even on the mats. I used to have minor headaches when I was first slammed onto the mats. Landing head first, even on mats would definitely disable anyone. Things get broken on the concrete.

I would not discount the power and damage of a well placed knee or elbow to any part of the body. Thrown properly, it would soften even the biggest guy. I have seen big guys get ko'd from average sized guys landing knees to the body after the average guy worked the big one into a clinch.

From our discussions, it seems that aikido can disable an opponent (you say that its the Yoshinkan style) and restrain/control an opponent without damaging. At the same time, you would have to study a more fast paced course from a good instructor.

Unfortunately, like TKD in the U.S. our perception of aikido is limited from what we see at schools; we see a fat guy charging slowly at a 45 kg woman, telegraphing a karate chop and in one second, she has brought him to his knees in a wristlock and then throws him 3 feet. Not to say that aikido isn't deadly if taught by an excellent instructor, but I think we see the ki aikido - which teaches more of a way of thinking and health, not yoshinkan aikido.

[chris davis 200]

Tom Yum,

I agree with you!



I would say finding an instructor that really knows their stuff is one of the hardest things to do in todays Martial arts world (in any art), there are just SOOOOOO many mcdojo's around!

chris

[Toudiyama]

Originally posted by chris davis 200
Tom Yum,

I agree with you!



I would say finding an instructor that really knows their stuff is one of the hardest things to do in todays Martial arts world (in any art), there are just SOOOOOO many mcdojo's around!

chris

In Europe there aren't many McDojos, in my country I know of none
As far as the rest of the world goes, I don't know but I think McDojos are an north american thing
the only franchises you find here(EU) are stores and supermarkets and of those many are US names

In the EU you can best check if a school is a member of the national assoc. usually there will be one gouvernement recognized assoc per sport
In a country renowned for it's wine and cheese( don't dare to mention it these days) everything has been arranged perfectly so people can easely diferentiate between good schools and McDojos

[chris davis 200]

Im from the UK and our biggest organisations are Jokes in the main!! Just because a big organisation has alot of member dojo's it doesnt mean they know what they are doing!!

I use Ju Jutsu as the main example of this in the UK.

aikido? i dont know - there are many skilled people here, but for every skilled person there are 20 that should not be teaching. Karate has gone this way all over europe. with 1st and 2nd dans opening dojo's.

Martial arts have been watered down beyond recognition all over the world.

Cheers
chris

[Toudiyama]

Originally posted by chris davis 200
Im from the UK and our biggest organisations are Jokes in the main!! Just because a big organisation has alot of member dojo's it doesnt mean they know what they are doing!!

I use Ju Jutsu as the main example of this in the UK.

aikido? i dont know - there are many skilled people here, but for every skilled person there are 20 that should not be teaching. Karate has gone this way all over europe. with 1st and 2nd dans opening dojo's.

Martial arts have been watered down beyond recognition all over the world.

Cheers
chris

Oh sorry Chris I didn't count the UK as part of the EU since you don't use the euro (just kiddin of coarse)

Ju Justu is one of the least organised arts in the EU

And as far as the UK karate org goes I was in the assumption that they were doing a good job just as the judo org

But what is it with martial arts that so many orgs excist, take boxing which org is the real world org?

As for 1st and 2nd dans starting schools, what's wrong with that, many of them now are 5th dan or higher
In the Netherlands were I live most schools started in the 60's as a 1st dan because at that time karate and judo were in the same org and if you were a judoteacher you you attained a blackbelt in either karate or ju jitsu you were also stait away a teacher in those arts
requirements now for karate teacher is still 2nd dan but it takes more than 3 years to first become an assistent and then a teacher
Judo the req is 3rd dan for teacher
In france(darn slipup) it's even better, goverment recognition gives you a posibility to grants
For instance when a judo becomes eu champion both he and his teacher will receive money
So there is a lot of goverment involvement in french sports
And this keeps the quality of the teachers at a very good level

When some people in the Us started talking about a system of recognition for teachers, everyone was comming with negatives about it, like who is going to judge them, because of that there still is no way for the consumer to check the validity of a teacher/school in the US

[chris davis 200]

I am just very aware that at 1st / 2nd dan you are still a beginner although more than capable of teaching the basics of the art this is all that it would be, the basics.

If you look a the 4th or 5th dans and the 1st / 2nd dans there is such a difference,in general.

I am not putting people opening dojo's with a low grade down. but it i think that this helps to water the art down because they do not have enough knowledge to convey the majority of the system.

Depends what there motive is i suppose.

Cheers
chris

[Tom Yum]

My experience with European martial arts/artists is that the average person takes their training seriously; they are not weekend warriors. Todi, I have seen/visited Mejiro gym in A'dam. The time I was there, people were sweating their @sses, not to mention that you guys (Dutch) are physically the largest people in the world - it gives you an advantage. Take Semmy Schildt for instance.

[Temujin]

I used to train with a TKD guy that had studied aki-jutsu for some time. He spent 5 years or so mastering 3 techniques. ALso, he was very tall which make a HUGE differnce in getting leverage on people.

This guy could lead with a kick and grab your arm and drop you like a brick unbelievably well. When I last met him 3 years ago, he had just started putting his stuff to work in ground fighting (applying aki-jutsu to the ground).

I also trained with a San Soo master for a while. Amazing. He was a boxer and wrestler also. I only really sparred him full out once and he had me wrapped up tapping so fast I was stunned. San Soo is just THE SH*T.

Flowing from one technique to the next is the true power of softer MA's. They EXPECT you to resist certain ways that they can take advantage of. Evassion is also a key component. Ueshiba, they say, could dodge even sword blows. If so, what the hell could I ever do to hit him?

[ryanhall]

Flowing from one technique to the next is the true power of softer MA's. They EXPECT you to resist certain ways that they can take advantage of. Evassion is also a key component. Ueshiba, they say, could dodge even sword blows. If so, what the hell could I ever do to hit him?

The ability to do what you do fluidly is a huge asset in all martial arts. Think boxers aren't fluid because they are very direct? Think again. How can you hit O'sensei? Do it like you should do it in a real fight. Don't let him know it's on until you've already landed your first hard shot. Also, there are a lot of silly myths regarding him (and many other elder masters).

Except, of course, for those 90 year olds who can easily beat 10 or 15 thugs..........

In all seriousness, those myths do martial arts such harm. They attract dumb morons who then propogate the myths. Then these idiots get the shit kicked out of them, and ordinary people think that all martial arts are crap.

[Temujin]

Wow, Bri, you are certainly testy today. Ueshiba's very publicized spiritual awakening (where he realized aikido was love) happened to him just after he sparred a kendo guy for like 10 minutes. He was unarmed and dodged all of the kendo guy's strikes. I've read that story in a dozen different places so it might have a grain of truth to it.

Anyway, yes all MA do the flowing thing. I've boxed for a while and that is all about flow. Carlos Machado flows effortlessly on the ground. My point was, and I should have said this better, was that using a persons' resistance against him is something the softer styles do well by necessity. Strikers user more feints to set up strikes, grapplers do too but not in the same way, imho. I mean, softer styles have less of a choice about how they use someone's energy against them.

I have used aikido against and attacker, btw. In college I was studying under a JJJ/wing chun guy. The drill we had been working on was to watch someone's feet. When the feet are side by side, the person is weak forward/backward but strong side to side UNLESS he is moving, then it is opposite. Same for foot in front stance. By watching someone's feet you can push them all around the room. THis is what I did against my bigger brother when he tried to get mean with me. I shoved him all over the room and into things until he gave up. He was such a punk back then. Anyway, if I had hit him, he'd have never let me forget about it.

See if you can do it against my big brother. I'll piss him off a bit first by telling him you humped his wife, and then give him a knife.

Or does it only work when you're playing?