Has anyone used aikido in real life situations?

[terry]

I spend most of my time on this forum trying to make constructive suggestions on how to get better. I'm aware that there is a International Flat Earth Society and so on, and it doesn't really bother me too much as long as I can find a little niche for what I like to do. And, fortunately for me, there seem to be quite a few fitness-oriented, blood-thirsty sick bastards out there such that my outlook on the world remains positive.

I don't have a lot of energy to argue about styles, etc., but there is a lot of junk and myth and oriental mumbo jumbo floating around out there that just doesn't mean much in my eyes until I can see it in action against a competent adversary. Bottom line: Good training methods applied consistently over time produce skilled martial artists that can fight. And that is where I like to focus my energy.

T

People will believe what they want to believe I suppose. But I don't. I believe what the evidence tells me. The two are not always the same thing.

I would love to believe that Aikido could make your energy flow with the universe, and you could become one with your opponent and neutralise his negative ions with the power of prayer, or whatever pseudo philosophical nonsense they spout. But all that bollocks is just that. Bollocks.

Tell me this. Why don't Ki and Chi masters devote their energies to tennis, or football or boxing etc. etc. Then they could make millions from it. I know that might detract from the morale high ground they claim to have. But it would be ok if they gave it all to charity wouldn't it?

I'll tell you why. Because it is bollocks, and they only "prove" their power to the ill educated and the already converted. As history shows, people will believe what they want to believe. Put one of these supermen in the ring with a Tyson and they will be pushing up daisies in approximately 7 seconds.

Ki and Chi is like talking to the dead, alien abductions and the Loch Ness Monster. Plenty people believe it but none of them can prove it to science. Or to anyone with even half a brain........

Carry on believeng what you want to believe. I'll certainly carry on believing what the evidence tells me.

Fond regards! XXX

[terry]

Br Thai,

On that last point of yours I disagree or at least think you may have left room for qualification. There is a role for mental and psychological preparation in the process of building a competition athlete. This can involve meditation and visualization training. The Soviets used to keep statistics of the rate at which people bombed out in international competitions. After they started introducing meditation and visualization techniques the rate went down by about 20%. That's a rate that is both statistically significant and of enough interest for people to change training methods.

So, meditation and visualization training, which is contained within some of the traditional arts, does have its place. It can calm you down and get you to maintain your focus in moments of pressure. In my view, that is a supportive role and should not ever come at the expense of getting good at your primary activity. And, I would advocate, getting good at your primary activity means questioning results and altering your training to produce the best results. To put it simply, it isn't about tradition, it's about results.

T

I believe very strongly in the power of the mind. One of the key factors is motivation. If using visualisation or meditation motivates you to train harder, then you will train harder and get correspondingly better results.

For example, in weights routines I focus on a mental picture of me, and see the musculature that I am trying to improve. Seeing this image keeps me going when the body is saying "put it down, you tit, you can't lift it any more". But I can, and I do.

For bag work I often imagine that it is the dead of night and I am confronted by a 17 stone steroid abusing knife weilding lunatic who's only aim in life is to ensure that I never see my children again. Once more the motivation is dramtically increased, as is the quality of training.

But I do NOT believe in Fairy Stories about hidden energy and Vulcan death Grips. It just isn't logical, Captain.

[terry]

LOL

[darrianation]

I totally agree with Terry and a lot of others when they say lets see it in action.
As far as talking about mental aspects MA this is very important. Where I think a lot of people are getting mixed up is the deference between the east vs. west philosophies. We in the west tend to draw power from ourselves or our team and coaches knowing that we have trained hard and in the belief we sweated more than our opponent and put more hours in at the gym etc. Eastern philosophy tends to be more mystical. If the student can find meaning in the parable then he is wise and can defeat the enemy. Deferent ways of thinking.

Mental means motivation and figuring out ways to become better. Then working your ass off to get there. Overcoming problems along the way. Confidence fits in here also, believe in ourselves. Not walking across rice paper crass hopper or figuring some ancient riddle doesn’t do jack. Does an NFL linebacker care about chi or how energy flows through the universe or about some damn pebble rolling down a mountain? NO, but he will put you on your ass anyway. It comes down to wanting it, working like all hell to achieve it. If sitting in yoga class helps you to achieve it fine but don’t think that getting out hitting the weight room, running 10 miles a day, sweating your ass of in front of a heavy bag and putting in the hours of sparring aren’t going to do it, then your crazy.

There’s a basic belief among sport educators and exercise physiologists that to become better at sport then you must train specifically for that sport. So whether or not your training for the ring, streets or golf you better train specifically and realistically to your needs and goals. Now back to Aikido. Aikido can be effective if trained correctly and realistically. You can’t tell from demonstrations because they are all crap. Aikido needs to step up to the plate and go against a boxer, thai boxer or Tito lol. Something like that. Perform well and not just once but consistently. Then we’ll shut up at least I will!

What the mind can conceive and believe it can achieve!

[chris davis 200]

I dont really know what else i can bring to this descussion i have shared my experiences and view that is all i can do.

Whether you beleive in chi or ki is quite irrelevant to whether aikido works. The body mechanics are what makes is effective.

You do not have to be a master at aikido for it to work effectively.

I was speaking to someone that was in the NHB scene for about 5 years in britain. (this was about 8 years ago). He said to me that in competition he mainly used Lau gar/ Kickboxing and Judo. But when he works on the doors (in a very rough bar in Bristol) He only uses Aikido. This says alot to me. I asked him why this is, he said, people do not expect to go where their taken with aikido, people are more comitted to a single attack on the street and when their arm is about to snap they tend to stop squerming so it comes in handy!
He also said that he used some aikido in NHB contest, mainly the body movemnet for evasion and redirection of strikes. But if an arm was there he woould 'rip it off' to use his terminology.

I asked if he uses kickboxing or striking much on the doors. He said no, because he doesnt want to go to jail for cutting someones face, and it wasnt as quick in ending encounters. this also said alot.

This guy has been on the doors for 10 years.

I agreed with his comments.

Whether you take these as valid points or not is up to you.

Aikido needs to step up to the plate and go against a boxer, thai boxer or Tito lol. Something like that. Perform well and not just once but consistently. Then we’ll shut up at least I will!

I didnt think this was a style vrs style thread? but a has anyone used aikido in real life thread?

I have and so have many aikidoka.

cheers
Chris

[chris davis 200]

NHB scene for about 5 years in britain. (this was about 8 years ago).

that he was in this scene - not that i was talking to him!

Yeah, the Aikido Dorrman.

Yeah........

[chris davis 200]

[Toudiyama]

Bri:

What peronal experience with akido do you have that makes you think it is crap for real life situations? Did you fight Aikido people or see them fail on the streets
I'm really interrested why you think so, apart from it not being present in NHB events

You, being a police officer, will probably come across much more violence then most of us

regards

Danny"Toudiyama" Spits

Two of my wife's brothers are Dan grades in Aikido. And what a pair of pussies. I watched the training, it was hopeless. The "attacker" would wave his hand about, hold it in front of the "defender" and then roll about at the slightest little twist. Totally totally unrealistic.

I did a form of Japanese Jiu Jitsu for about 12 months. There was an awful lot of Aikido in that. Again it was "attack", wave your arm about, and then roll over like a puppy dog when it was twisty wristy time.

As a police recruit we had Taiho Ryu Jitsu, or some similar sounding bollocks. That was our so called self defence system, and had been designed by a high ranking Aikidoka called Brian Eaustace. It was crap. Once again, more hand waving and diving.

This indicates how most practitioners are kidding themselves. Last year I attended a Combatives Course run by a guy called Dennis Martin. I was stunned when he started teaching us a wrist lock. As we practiced we were all duly bending over for the "defender".

Then Dennis said "OK, now just stiffen your wrists and don't let the person get the wristlock on. It was as easy as that to counter the lock. Now I know that people will say "but in reality you will distract the person with a strike, and then put the technique on". But, in real reality, the other person will be hitting, kicking, biting and stabbing at you, so you will end up pushing up daisies trying this nonsense.

If what ever techniques you practice aren't simple, brutal and quick you have no hope when your life is on the line.

Here endeth the lesson. Amen.

[chris davis 200]

your experience. fine.

My experience different. fine.

Here endeth your argument on the effectiveness of aikido.

....or lack of.

[Michael Neal]

Some stories of real life applications of Aikido

http://www.aikidofaq.com/stories/real_life.html

http://www.aikidofaq.com/stories/real_life2.html