Has anyone used aikido in real life situations?

[Michael Neal]

LOL, I have not read those stories in a long time. I read them before I started Aikido and now it is pretty clear alot of them are BS, especially the knife stuff. It would be criminal to give people that much confidence that they could take a knife wielding attacker, my instructor tells us to either draw a gun or run away.

However there are some stories on there that are credible. You can go to either www.Aikiweb.com and www.aikidojournal.com and do a search for threads on "street" situations or "real life" situations and you will find some better ones.

Maybe I will collect them together sometime. There will always be some BS inserted by idiots and you will also find some "harmony" with the attacker crap as well. But there are many who seriously practice Aikido and have used it for real.

You find idiots in all martial arts who make bullshit claims and such, this is really not exclusive to Aikido, in fact you wil find plenty of BS on these forums and others from practioners of BJJ, kung fu, karate etc.

[Tom Yum]

Aikido is for non-violent confrontations and might work well against an intimidated opponent. It would compliment another grappling art (judo,jiujitsu) but stand alone I think it has more weaknesses.

For example, how does an aikidoka defend against a round house kick to the legs or shovel hook to the body? How would an aikidoka escape a mount? Or in a certain 7th dan movie star aikido master's case, how about a tight choke from a life-long judo expert and competitor?

[Michael Neal]

I agree with you that Aikido is not a complete martial art, it has weaknesses. Most people at my school have backgrounds in other arts like Judo, BJJ, Karate, etc. I think to study Aikido alone without working on physical fitness and learning important skills in striking and groundwork would not prepare you enough.

There are several things in Aikido that can be used to counter those kicks, a tenkan movement that turned on the inside of the kick would render the kick useless and prepare for a easy throw at that point. Personally I would combine the Aikido turning movement and then counter with a Judo O Uchi Gari or something similar on the grounded leg.

[Kingston]

Aikido has some effective principals....but i dont think many places train properly, have adequate teachers, or take into acount reality.

[Michael Neal]

Originally posted by Kingston
Aikido has some effective principals....but i dont think many places train properly, have adequate teachers, or take into acount reality.

I agree. But not all places are like that.

[Tom Yum]

When you say 'tenkan' movement to the inside of the leg, do you mean closing the distance to avoid the impact of the opponents shin/knee? And then O Uchi gari?

Wrestlers would simultaneously close the distance to avoid the impact and come in low since the kicker is off balance. From there he could go for a single-leg. Boxers time the kick and simultaneously land their hardest right cross before the kick lands and follow up with left-hook.

If the kick lands though it could be trouble.

[Michael Neal]

Pretty much the same effect yes, but the tenkan movement is a little more than just closing the distance.

I will try to explian it, suppose the kicker is throwing a roundhouse kick with his right leg towards your leftside ribs. You would step inside (very fast) and pivot in a circle counterclockwise in the same direction of the kick. After this he will be overextended and you would have an array of things you could do to him at this point as most of his weight would be on his left leg, perfect for single leg takedown or leg reap or sweep.

This would not work if he gets the jump on you of course, although even if he manages to tag you and you are moving the impact will be diminished.

[Lizard]

A simple movement that minimises damage from a kick AND gives the perfect opportunity for a takedown? That could lead into some sort of leg-lock? Perhaps aikido does have some potential for a useful art. Get rid of all the spiritual stuff, throw out all of the people who make up unbelievable stories, start training against other martial artists such as MT/BJJ practitioners and you could end up with an MA to be proud of. Combat-kido. Oh yeah, stop doing demos where the attacker runs slowly towards his opponent waving his arm above his head.

[Michael Neal]

I agree, I think there needs to be some evolution in training methods but the principles that the techniques rest on are sound.

[Pastyti]

Originally Posted by terry

To address the original question in this thread: Has anybody used Aikido in a fight?

My answer: Nope. The only Aikido I have got is imbedded within Cacoy's stick barrage footwork, and I'm usually at the receiving end of that. I did, however, use some pretty non-violent stuff from Bukti Negara to break up a fight between two people (w/ 5 bystander/egger-on'ers). I was surprised it came out at all, but there it was: puter kepalla, biset luar and a bent elbow arm lock.

The way I think of it was this: I was able to employ what the police would refer to as Level I defensive tactics to separate the combatants and discontinue the fight without having to go to Level II or III. (Having a voice like a marine corp drill seargent and 100 lbs of muscle on the largest guy also helped discourage things from going further.

Bottom line: Level I is fine, but you need to have a lot of power in reserve. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

Why the hell did you get involved in the first place? Was it any of your business? If the silly buggers want to punch and kick sh!t out of each other LET EM!!

[Pastyti]

Originally Posted by eXcessiveForce

Sure boxers are fluid. But you have Chris Byrd that doesn't take hits, and you have others who waddle around the ring and try to overcome a lack of mobility with power.



I also see a lot of people talk about demo's and how they show styles are crap. Demo's are like movies, they are not real. In a demo you cannot afford to injure someone. The only reason to do demos is to advertise your art, your school, or yourself. Demo's are about getting more students and making money. You show people flashy stuff even if it isn't from your system and you train the hell out of the routines so they flow perfectly. Then little jimmy sees it at tells his mom he has to take lessons there. And then we as instructors get paid.

Then in a late night instructor class you lock the door and start to train with the adults on things that would give little jimmy and his mother nightmares for the rest of their lives.

In the TKD demos would would use lots of aikido because it looks good and little people can do it on big people. And it doesn't look vicious. Vicious does not sell mothers on martial arts.

Give them the candy to start, the hard liquor comes later.

Interesting thought. I know of a mother who is currently sueing a 'school' over her 14 year old son's broken nose, it required an 18 hour operation by a consultant surgon to put it right, not therefore a minor injury. She's sueing on the basis of 'breach of contract', (and the local constabulary is persuing a case for assault). Ie she paid for her son to be taught, and, in the resultant breakage they were in breach of their 'duty of care'. I don't know about the rest of the world, but, in the UK all businesses have an implicit duty of care to all persons who are on or in the premises which are occupied by the business. That duty of care is enshrined in what in the UK is common law, this is regarded as an implicit contract term and cannot be negated by other terms of the contract which seek to limit liability, and states that, "no harm must befall any person on the business premises",(please note NO HARM, not little harm or only minor harm, NO HARM) be it customer, supplier, or staff ' possibly also visitor but I'm not sure on the last one. (Look up a copy of Charlsworths Merchantile Law). Breach of this duty of care is regarded by the judiciary as extremly serious, and can and often does involve involve penal damages for the breach and also very high comensation damages being awarded. I have yet to encounter a MA school which has limited liability status, (Ltd Co). Most are either sole traders or partnerships. In either case the proprietors are liable for the totality of their personal and business assets. [b]Still want to make it 'realistic?' Is it really worth losing your house and all your assetts over?

[mma_fan81]

Aikido doesn't work in real fight situations. Looks great in demonstrations because the students fall willingly with absolutely no resistance.

[HtTKar]

]Still want to make it 'realistic?' Is it really worth losing your house and all your assetts over?

I dont know about the UK. In the US you can sign a waiver of your rights. This way if a student is injured the dojo is no longer liable for anything.

People here always talk about how wrestling is a great addition to MA. Wrestling does not allow joint manipulation. Aikido is all about joint manipulation. There are more joints than just your wrist, such as your neck, shoulder, fingers, knee, etc. I have never used Aikido for real self-defense, but I can see how it can be used, especially if a person grabs you first. Sometimes when joking around (which I know is a lot different) I'll leave my arm sticking out a little so that it can be grabbed. This allows me to transition into a bunch of different movements. Get them in a figure4 lock, blood choke, or anything else. Alot of times its a useful way to get behind someone quickly. It's just not the type of MA where you jump into a ring, tell people what you know, and then try to use it on them. But overall, I think it contributes a lot of knowledge to a person that already knows a lot about Martial Arts.

[Pastyti]

Originally Posted by HtTKar

I dont know about the UK. In the US you can sign a waiver of your rights. This way if a student is injured the dojo is no longer liable for anything.

People here always talk about how wrestling is a great addition to MA. Wrestling does not allow joint manipulation. Aikido is all about joint manipulation. There are more joints than just your wrist, such as your neck, shoulder, fingers, knee, etc. I have never used Aikido for real self-defense, but I can see how it can be used, especially if a person grabs you first. Sometimes when joking around (which I know is a lot different) I'll leave my arm sticking out a little so that it can be grabbed. This allows me to transition into a bunch of different movements. Get them in a figure4 lock, blood choke, or anything else. Alot of times its a useful way to get behind someone quickly. It's just not the type of MA where you jump into a ring, tell people what you know, and then try to use it on them. But overall, I think it contributes a lot of knowledge to a person that already knows a lot about Martial Arts.

Hi there HtTKar. Who would be daft enough to sign a waiver like that? You no longer have the protection of the law. Who is going to pay you if as a result of your injury you end up off work for 3 or 4 months? Your employer? Why should they? You participated in an activity which could be forseen to result in dammage being done, let the person or organisation causing the dammage pay up. In my opinion, you have to be able to sue the service provider in the instance where they are in breach of the contract. Certainly I wouldn't sign such a waiver either for my kids or myself. The law is there for your protection, so use it as such, don't try and negate its effectivness.

[HtTKar]

It depends on what I thought was more important and whether I truly trusted the instructor. No I wouldn't just sign all my rights away on a whim. I would definitely investigate their school, ask other students questions and all sorts of stuff. It wouldnt be taken lightly. If however, I thought that learning realistic self-defense was a priority then yes, I would sign a waiver. When you look at those reality-TV shows, all those people have signed their rights away, and this is for a TV show, not even close to as important as being able to defend your family and friends.

So I say that if you are running a bussiness and offer waivers, there will always be a customer base willing to sign their rights away for a greater good.

Still want to make it 'realistic?' Is it really worth losing your house and all your assetts over?

Without offering a waiver you will always be left with this thought. The laws are there to protect you. It is legal to have someone sign a waiver, as that protects your right to teach in a realistic manner without fear of litigation.