Christian group says martial arts are a big no no...

[nhb_wanabe]

a troll i must be.

i try and try, imflammation upon imflamation and i can't get a bite.

[nhb_wanabe]

a troll i must be.

i try and try,
imflamation upon imflamation
upon imflamatiiion
and i just can't get a bite.

[Joe Manco]

Ryu:
I couldn't tell if you were serious or not. Nietzsche didn't kill anyone, Jew or otherwise.

More people have died "in the name of God" than from any other non-natural cause.

Religious zealots should be lined up, brutally beaten, and then shot. In the name of fun.

Yours truly,

Joe

[Ryu (non-working password]

Joe,
of course I was kidding

you can wish it, but I'd never turn into THAT big of a moron.

Take care

Ryu

[david a]

He's right it wasn't Neitzsche that killed, it was his philosophy that drove Hitler to his madness.

[david a]

On one occasion, so it was narrated, Stalin called for a live chicken and proceeded to use it to make an unforgettable point before some of his henchmen. Forcefully clutching the chicken in one hand, with the other he began to systematically pluck out its feathers. As the chicken struggled in vain to escape, he continued in the painful denuding until the bird was completely stripped. "Now you watch," Stalin said as he placed the chicken on the floor and walked away with some bread crumbs in his hand. Incredibly, the fear-crazed chicken hobbled toward him and clung to the legs of his trousers. Stalin threw a handful of grain to the bird, and as it began to follow him around the room, he turned to his dumbfounded colleagues and said quietly, "This is the way to rule the people. Did you see how that chicken followed me for food, even though I had caused it such torture? People are like that chicken. If you inflict inordinate pain on them they will follow you for food the rest of their lives."
(Joyce Barnathan and Steven Strasser, "Excorcising a soviet ghost," Newsweek 27 June, 1988)

With that promise, Stalin reduced humanity to the level of animals, and intoxicated with power, he ruthlessly exterminated some 15 million of his countrymen, prompting the suicides of members of his immediate family. Stalin's starting point of building a world without God, led to one of the goriest experiments in all of genocidal history.

What was that about an example of bloodshed in the hands of atheism????????????????????????????????????????????????

[Ryu (non-working password]

David, yuck.

There's too many examples of human cruelty over the years in every country, nation, and time.
One of the reasons I train is because it is my way of "escaping" or "dreaming I can do something about it".

might sound kind of silly, but that's just me

I think I'll go practice some osaekomiwaza now ...

[nhb_wanabe]

thanks very much for the response.

you have a very good point, however I said "in the name of atheism" not "the hands of atheism".

Stalin was a thug who was consolidating his power.

Religionists were organized groups who presented a threat to him.

he didn't kill because they practiced a different religion then him.

that kind of killing is, by definition, practiced by religionists.

[Edited by nhb_wanabe on 11-20-2000 at 10:33 AM]

[Jimmy23]

I find it odd that the people who Stalin as an example never acknowledge the long history of massacre the czars perpetuated for 500 years before the commies took over,nor the incredibley repressive regime they oversaw.The only reason the commies killed so many more people is becaue they were organized and industrialized,the czars government was so inept even its purges were ineffective.
Im not defending the Bolshivks,only trying to point out that Russia has a long tradition of brutal government,the Bolsheviks just carried on this tradition with modern tools and technicques.

[Tony10]

Where to begin?

Fallacy: Atheist = immoral
Fallacy: non-Christian = "unsaved"
Fallacy: Christian = moral
Fallacy: Christian = American
Fallacy: non-Christian = anti-Christian
Fallacy: Democrats = non-Christian (non-GOP) party
Fallacy: non-Christians = want to be made Christians

"Inside every gook is an American trying to get out..."
-Full Metal Jacket

[david a]

nhb_wanabe,

I partially agree with your last post. Although Stalin's demise was clearly totalitarianism, a state of atheism crept in when Stalin took control of Soviet Union and destroyed churches in order to gain complete power over the population. Whereas the Catholics were pursuing church and state, Stalin was pursuing the reverse.
What his complete motives were we may never know, but it is clear that atheism played a part in it, but perhaps under a different disquise.
Stalin was anti-theist however, and this presumption is best hinted by Stalin's daughter, Svetlana when she noted that "as Stalin lay dying, plagued with terrible hallucinations, he suddenly sat half way up in bed, clenched his fist towards heaven once again, fell back on his pillow, and was dead. It is also noted that because of his hatred for all religions, this resulted in Lenin positioning Stalin in authority- a choice Lenin later regretted.

Tony10,

It is true that not all atheists are immoral. I clearly stated that the actions done by both religious and athiests, were very immoral, and both are without excuse. The same is true of religion as well. Not all religious are immoral. But I think the larger point is being missed here.
Antitheism provides every reason to be immoral and is bereft of any objective point of reference with which to condemn any choice. Any antithiest who lives a moral life chooses to live it better than their philosophy warrants.

"Christians= americans"
Not my juristiction because I am not american.

I don't believe all non-christians are anti-christian either. In fact, I know many non-christians that hold to many issues of christian moral thought who have not pronounced themselves "christians" at all.

I also understand that not all non-christians wish to be christians. My position is not to shove my beliefs down other peoples throats, but to give reason to my beliefs when they are questioned, and to help those who are sincerely searching for God. If I have done otherwise, please enlighten, but as for others on this forum, they are held to their own account.

[nhb_wanabe]

you're right of course we just don't know but we can be assured that stalin did not find a moral reason for abstention from brutality in his atheism.

perhaps if he had been a sincere christian things might not have been so bad.

but if he had been an atheist of my ilk then I think the same could be said.

"do unto others..." is the most important part of Jesus' philosophy to me.

thanks for remaining reasonable.

peace.

[Maui Jim]

Here's a response to the thread from the site

BIBLE TRUTHS
Website Address: http://www.bible-truths.org
E-Mail Address: letters@bible-truths.org

Thank you for your e-mail you sent us. First of all, we want you to read
what it says in John 14:6. "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the
truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

There is no other way, but by Jesus Christ; He alone is the true church
on this earth. It is the body of Jesus Christ that every true Christian
belongs to. There is no chaos in this true church, as you say there is.
The body of Jesus Christ is right in all things; they are a people who
have the mind of Jesus in them. They also live a holy life, and walk
this earth living above committing sin. You see the church of Jesus
Christ is a perfect church, because this is what Jesus commands us to
be. Matthew 5:48. "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is
in heaven is perfect."

No there is no chaos in the body of Jesus; we are all united in the
truth of His Word, and we preach His Word to the uttermost of our
beings. Let us look at why there is chaos in religion, as you say there
is. The reason is that ninety nine percent of religions are false; they
are of the devil. They preach a doctrine of their own making; that is
what their father the devil tells them, and at times they may also
preach some truth, but that is only to make it sound like they are
preaching the Word of God. Yet they are false, as false can be, and this
is why you have utter chaos, it is taking people into hell fire.

A Christian has only one goal, and that is to serve Jesus and win souls
to Him.
Their goal is to obey His Word to the uttermost, and by doing so He will
keep us and our families safe. What is wrong with the mighty power of
God? Why is it that you are refusing to believe that He can keep you
safe? He does not need the arm of flesh to help Him. A true Christian
has to be dead to the things of the flesh and alive to the things of the
Holy Spirit, and you will not find what you do right in the eyes of
Almighty God.

1 Peter 3:12-14. "For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and
his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is
against them that do evil. And who is he that will harm you, if ye be
followers of that which is good? But and if ye suffer for righteousness'
sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be
troubled."

You say there is nowhere in the Bible where it says you cannot protect
yourself. But listen, the Bible makes it quite clear that God Almighty
is your protector, it is a matter of living faith in Jesus. Yes, Jesus
did say turn the other cheek, and He meant it; not at times where you
want to, but at all times. It shows the love of God in us. By doing the
opposite, you are showing the flesh, which should be dead. It shows they
are not living the Word of God, and by doing so they are none of His.
You cannot live in the flesh and in the Spirit at the same time; it is
one or the other.

Luke 10:19. "Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and
scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any
means hurt you."
Do you think God is talking for the sake of talking, and talking a lie?
No, He means what He says. If people stand firm on His Word, then He
will protect them.

But as you say in your e-mail, you will fight if you had to, and that
means you may even bodily hurt someone, or even kill them. Only on the
day of judgement will you find out how wrong you are for disobeying the
Word of Jesus.

Let us tell you about what happened in England. There was a man
preaching the Word of God, and he saw a man coming by him with a knife
in his hand. The preacher asked Jesus to pin the man to the lamp-post he
was just passing, and that is what God did. Then the preacher went up to
him and asked the man why he had the knife, and the man told him that he
was going home to kill his wife. The preacher then told the man about
Jesus, and the man gave his life to Jesus, and not only that, but the
man's wife also gave her heart to Jesus.

Throughout the Bible we are told of the mighty keeping power of God. You
can read it with your own eyes, and yet you still lean upon the arm of
flesh. You are denying the God of power.

You say some Christian groups are trying hard to win souls for Jesus.
Well, if they are truly Christians then souls will be saved. But if you
mean they are trying to show them Jesus through martial arts, then they
will fail because Jesus is no where near martial arts; it is the
opposite to all Jesus stands for.

We pray the Lord Jesus will open your eyes to His truth, and that you
will make your stand in the power of the Holy Spirit instead of the
flesh, that will fail you one day.

2 Corinthians 10:3-4. "For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war
after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but
mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds"

[Ryu (non-working password]

This in no way is meant to offend any on the board, especially david a who seems very knowledgable and easy to talk to.

But...(and this is only my tiredness talking right now) The next time an extreme Christian starts talking to me about how Jesus protects them from all harm, and "why do I not believe Jesus will keep me safe" .....I'm going to punch him in the face, and knock him on his ass.

Just to prove a point.

Okay, sorry
I'm a bit tired these days...

Ryu

[david a]

Thanks Ryu.

Maui Jim,

It seems that you need to learn the art and science of biblical interpretation.

1 Peter 3:12-14

True, the Lord does look after us and protect us, but He doesn't promise us that we will never be harmed. For even the verse you quote says "that we may suffer for righteousness." Have you not forgotten about the Christians who are being persecuted physically in China and Sudan even this day?

Luke 10:19 is refering to spiritual authority over demonic powers-read the verses before and following! Refer also to Ps 91:13, Ezek. 2:6 It is not talking about physical protection.

You quoted Matt. 5 refering to turning the other cheek.

Pacifism is not being taught here, for even Christ did not literally turn the other cheek when smitten by one of the sanhedrin- John 18:22-23
In that day, Jews considered it an insult to be hit in the face , like we do when someone spits in our face. What Christ is teaching is not to retaliate when being slandered or insulted verbally. These insults do not threaten our physical harm. see-Romans 12:17-21

Lastly, If you saw a little girl being raped, would you not retaliate?

Certainly, the bible teaches us that self-defense used to help someone may be one of the greatest examples of love,
for Christ said, "Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for another."- John 15:14


Not resisting evil is an evil of omission, and an evil of omission can be just as evil as an evil of remission.

There are much more scripture I can use but that should be sufficient.

Note to my friends on the forum. If Jim should choose not to read my post, you have my permission to e-mail it to him.
(I'm too stupid to know how to do it from this post-HE,HE)