Belt Systems Fail...

[Great Sage]

The worst scenario at a MA gym is one where EVERYONE is wearing a black belt, except the guys that can kick your ass. And the worst gyms are the ones that speedily march everyone through the black belt process to make room for more students — This is my vague recollection of karate class at age 10.

As a child, the pressure of belt testing can be immense. Belt colors often create social classes within the dojo. Green belts stick together and poke fun of white and yellow belts in a childish social hierarchy. And ever looming was that pressure to make it to the next level. Most of the time it was forced upon you. I certainly wasn’t ready for blue belt, until it was forced upon me since I had 30 classes under my wing...

My newly achieved blue belt status did very little for me as I knew that the adult white belts could easily toss me like a salad. So what exactly did it mean to be a blue belt? Absolutely NOTHING...

Seriously, the value of a black belt is so shamelessly low these days that anyone can buy one. How often have you walked into a gym to find little black belts running about the premises? “Too often” is putting it lightly. Nowadays, it seems the only integrity left in the MA is what you carry in and out.

From what I’ve heard, I am relatively intrigued by the standards still upheld in BJJ. Unfortunately, as BJJ continues to attract newcomers and become watered down, it’s own integrity may diminish. However, either that remains to be seen or the wheel is already set in motion.

[Lizard]

There are indeed many problems associated with belt systems and I personaly would agree that it is best not to have them. But they do have some uses: they encourage people to train, act as a reward for training hard, a way for instructors to see how good people are. But this will only work if belts are given only to those who have trained hard and shown skill, Gradings are a bad way to test people, lots of people get nervous and don't do as well as they should.

[Toudiyama]

belt systems aren't meant to judge people other than within the organisation/style
appart from that BB is not an endstation just a begining in most styles JJ use to only have one BB so there it was the end station

The fact that some misuse it doesn't make the system bad, the fact that some fake a university degree doesn't make the schooling system bad does it? Even though schoolexams are standardized, a harvard degree is still more worth than some minor uni's diplom

[crazyjoe380]

in my school belts are coo.


they mos def don't move you up unless you are ready. i'm still a white belt in bjj. i just have more work to do that's all.

but belts seperate the people that need more work from the advanced. in bjj the belts work and mean something cause they just dont move you up..

karate is another story.

[Toudiyama]

I'm amazed BJJ is supposed to be simpel and effective, why then does it take so long to get a belt at all?

the only belt I ever "got" was a green belt TKD but I was already a Black belt in Wado karate
Appart from that I never got a belt, always had to know and do my stuff to pass

Just watch Modern Warriors The Martial Way where the Modernest use the same argument against the belt system but the pointmatches I saw there were totally crap and not the way we do it in most EU countries
I can imagine that this kind of karate gives away the belt

[doubleouch]

In BJJ the belt system is only there to separate people for competition. In the gym we don't give a crap about belt color. The belts take a long time to get because we make sure that there really is a qualitative difference between the belts. A purple belt is eons above a blue belt. A blue belt is eons above a fresh white belt etc. It is competition that helps keep the belt system in bjj from breaking down. If there is no competition then there really is no way to guage the belts. If there is no competition then there is no need for belts. If you look at the history of martial arts you will see that Kano invented the belt system to help separate people for competition and nothing more.

"I'm amazed BJJ is supposed to be simpel and effective, why then does it take so long to get a belt at all?"

Because it may be simple to get effective against the untrained, but it isn't simple to be the best amongst a crowd of people who ALL train.

[Lizard]

It upsets me that belts are so boring. I would have multi-coloured, stripey belts with shiney stars and symbols. How can people feel satisfied with a one-colour belt? Better yet, allow students to customise thier own belts, each time they go up they are allowed to add more. Example, So your now sixth level, ok you get three colours, six symbols, three of which may be shiney.

[Szczepankiewicz]

Kano invented the belt system to help separate people for competition and nothing more.

Check your sources and get your facts straight:

In the days before Kano created Judo, there was no kyu/dan ranking system in the martial arts. A more traditional method of recognizing achievement was the presentation of certificates or scrolls, often with the secrets of the school inscribed. Kano started the modern rank system when he awarded shodan to two of his senior students (Shiro Saigo and Tsunejiro Tomita) in 1883. Even then, there was no external differentiation between yudansha (black belt ranks) and mudansha (those who hadn't yet attained black belt ranking). Kano apparently began the custom of having his yudansha wear black obi (belts) in 1886. These obi weren't the belts karateka and judoka wear today -- Kano hadn't invented the judogi (Judo uniform) yet, and his students were still practicing in kimono. They were the wide obi still worn with formal kimono. In 1907, Kano introduced the modern judogi and its modern obi, but he still only used white and black belt ranks. The other colored belts originated later when Judo began being practiced outside of Japan. Mikonosuke Kawaishi is generally regarded as the first to introduce various colored belts in Europe in 1935 when he started to teach Judo in Paris. He felt that western students would show greater progress if they had a visible system of many colored belts recognizing achievement and providing regular incentives.

The rest of the article is here.

[hikickinchick]

I agree about the belts....most of the time the higher belts don't even really know anything more than the lower belts, but I know that people including myself tend to feel intimidated when facing a brown or black belt and are afraid to close when sparring...people at my palce generally dont make fun of lower belts, but there's still the odd kid that will. Most of the little kids don't relaly care--higher belts just mean more risk of becoming a target for 'tag'.

[MrPoopy]

Check your sources and get your facts straight:

Yeah! Get your facts straight! Me and Spanky don't play around when it comes to Judo!!!!!!!

[ramus]

THE REAL BELT IS EARNED IN THE RING.

sorry i had to get my point across.

[ryanhall]

You change philosophies like Oprah Winfrey changes body types.

[ramus]

well i guess so.

[Toudiyama]

Any grading or judging appart from multiple choise, will be subjective
A highschooldiploma in the US will differ from that in Japan or Europe (even within the US or UK it makes a difference where you studied) but we still do not object to that system we just accept that and still manage to have an impression of it's value
Belts are a personal thing in a sense that they aren't meant to tell others how good you are but they tell you where you are in your skills and knowledge of the art
Ranking in Ringsports on the other hand tell you were you stand compared to others and is best suited for people with a competetive nature