unusual techniques

[Lizard]

Has Bri Thai ever even said anything martial arts related? There never was a dinosaur variant of jiujitsu because at that age I had never heard of it. Dinosaur karate. It is long-forgotten now, an ancient art shrouded in the mists of time... I am the only true master. £99.99 per class plus £999.99 for belts plus £9.99 for belt cleaners plus £99999.99 or you don't get any bonus dino-chi. Dinomcdojos, the future of prehistoric martial arts is here.

Apparently both dinosaurs AND the founding master of this art have a brain the size of a peanut.

I shit you not.

OK, maye I do.

I have devised my own martial art also. It is called Dinosaur Shit. Imagine the power of a T Rex's dump!

Awesome!

[gazza]

Originally posted by Lizard
"In a street fight, why would you do any move, stance or tactic that has a lower percentage of success?" because it looks good. Life isn't worth living if you don't take risks. You can pretend you are in the matrix. A person who can do a flying spin kick will say to themselves "I'm so glad I learned to do a flying spin kick" and they will be happy, more flexible and will be able to impress their friends. The fact that these moves are not useful in a real fight is not in dispute.

Another way of looking at it is why would you not want to have the versatility to strike your opponent in any area with any part of your body?

Just from a quick glance around thse forums, a lot of people seem to be under the impression that all it takes is a quick kick to the leg to end a fight. In principle yes, however take that road with an experienced Thai fighter and see how far you get. Do people really want to cripple everyone who challenges them. Just because some guys being a drunk idiot doesn't mean you have the right to put the guy in a wheelchair.

The way I look at it you need to always keep your options open when confronted. Against a thai fighter (unless you are also a thai fighter) low kicks are a waste of time. Likewise you shouldn't try to match straight punching with a boxer as thes guys can generally take a punch, which can't be said for large portions of the MA community.

Kicks like an Axe kick are not just fancy moves with no purpose. If you have the technique, speed and timing, it's a good way to end a fight with one move without killing or knocking someone out. There really aren't too many people who want to continue fighting with a broken collar bone. The essence of these techniques is not necessarily if they will land but how they flow into your next series of movements. Don't put yourself into a position where you are an easy target.

[ryanhall]

The essence of these techniques is not necessarily if they will land but how they flow into your next series of movements

Everything you do should be to end the engagement now, not later.

Don't put yourself into a position where you are an easy target.

Then what exactly does sticking your leg up over your head while exposing your groin and disrupting your balance do? Make you a more difficult target?

There really aren't too many people who want to continue fighting with a broken collar bone.

If a broken jaw or arm won't stop someone from fighting, a collar bone fracture won't even make them flinch.

Another way of looking at it is why would you not want to have the versatility to strike your opponent in any area with any part of your body

Because kicking to the head is unnecessarily risky and has a very low benefit to danger ratio. You don't need to be able to hit someone in the eye with your toe. How can you praise boxing and still advocate flashy technique?

[gazza]

Originally posted by ryanhall



Because kicking to the head is unnecessarily risky and has a very low benefit to danger ratio. You don't need to be able to hit someone in the eye with your toe. How can you praise boxing and still advocate flashy technique?

Here's surprise, take slabs of text out of context. My point was you need to adjust your style to the style, size and ability of the person you are fighting. Certain attacks wont work on certain people effectively.

I don't believe in running around throwing reverse turning kicks and jumps etc at a regular basis. However you need to be able to improvise. Sometimes taking a risk with a flashy move will surprise an opponent. It also keeps them guessing.

Low kicks and straight punching should be the cornerstone but this isn't always going to work. If you don't have the versatility then once they've figured that out you're easy meat. Don't rely on flashy moves but don't rule them out either.

[Disciple]

I can think of two reasons why it is not best to attempt flashy techniques in a real fight.

1. Not everyone can or will ever be able to pull them off effectively. This depends a lot on your athletic ability, quickness, speed, flexibility, etc. For example, as an analogy, how many NBA two guards can pull off half the moves a Kobe Bryant or a Tracy McGrady execute on a nightly basis.

2. In a real fight you may not know what your opponent can do, and therefore you must assume the worst. A cool kick that you may be able to execute in nightly sparring matches may miss completely against a street fighter who may be incredibly strong, fast, tough, unorthodox and whom you know nothing about. In a point sparring match, there is room for error. The referee periodically stops the match. In a street fight, if you miss a high kick and get taken down, no one is going to stop the fight while you're getting your head slammed against the sidewalk.

Don't get me wrong, I am totally for martial artists working to expand their abilities and repetoire of techniques. To me, however, using a flashy technique in the street poses too high a risk when the consequences may be serious injury or death.

[ryanhall]

I hate discussing self-defense. No, I hate discussing it when people have a very skewed idea of what it entails.

If you don't have the versatility then once they've figured that out you're easy meat.

Figure you out? Have you ever been in a fight outside of the dojo or the halls of high school? It would seem not. There is no playing around. Here's how it goes: Bam, bam, bam, done. You have to make sure you're the one doing the 'bam' part. He who hits first holds all the cards.

Here's surprise, take slabs of text out of context

Out of context? Then what exactly were you getting at?

Sometimes taking a risk with a flashy move will surprise an opponent

More often it will result in you eating a piece of the floor and a boot after that. Do you think you will be capalbe of throwing a high hook kick while wearing boots, jeans, and standing in a crowded room? I hope not.

[gazza]

Yes I've ben in fights, both competition and on the street. So you don't belive you can 'figure' someone out. I guess that's where our MA philosophies differ. MA is as much brains as it is brawn. If you don't understand this then i do not know what you have been studying. Wring smarts if you like are a ornerstone of every fighting style. Whether that be asian martial arts or traditional boxing.

Your last paragraph is bordering on ridiculous. Yes in a crowded pub wearing tight jeans, boots, a backpack. 'll also do a backflip off the wall and swing from the chandalier. Horses for courses, stop treating me like a fool.

[ryanhall]

Smarts has nothing to do with figuring people out--unless you've been fighting rogue Kung Fu students in epic battles at dawn. Is that what you mean by experience? Brains come in before the altercation. If you think you'll be level-headed and clear-thinking when confronted by someone who wants to and is capable of hurting you, think again. But expericence would have already taught you that, right?

[gazza]

At dawn you say, i have to admit that brought a chuckle

Yes experience has taught me several things, one being that the guy with a level head will have more chance of adapting to the changing situation around him.
I can't believe you are structuring an argument arund anger and frustration as opposed to calm thought. If you are incapable of calm-though when confronted perhaps that is something you should work on. you might be surprised what you are capable of.

[ryanhall]

Where did I say anger? I said aggressiveness. Calm thought is nice (I happen to like it a whole lot), but you will NOT be calm when adrenaline is coursing through your veins at a mile a minute. Your knowledge comes into setting people up, recognizing set-ups, maneuvering things (you name it, it falls under this category) to your advantage, and picking a tool to use. When the fists are flying, you can not expect to be cool and collected.

I direct you to thses sites. If these guys don't preach it, it's probably no good for self-defense--I kid you not. I hope you enjoy:

www.sammyfranco.com
www.senshido.com
www.tonyblauer.com
www.rmcat.com
www.gutterfighting.org
www.selfdefenseforums.com
www.geoffthompson.com

I'll throw this one in for Kingston's benefit:
www.russianmartialart.com

[gazza]

I diagree again. Calm thought come easy to me. Just because your heart is beating and adrenaline is pumping doesn't mean you cannot be calm. The body is straining and rearing to go, but you hold yourself back until the timing is right, exploding with aggression, landing all or most of your blows and finishing the fight then and there. It's controlled aggression, not an all out release at the first given opportunity.

I'm unsure of yor age or level of experience, perhaps when you reach my age you wil be capable of original thought instead of requiring those of others to backup your opinions.

Enough is enough. Enjoy your websites and keep on swinging.

[ryanhall]

It's controlled aggression, not an all out release at the first given opportunity

I don't recall saying anything about 'all-out release at the first opportunity.' Frankly, your putting words in my mouth is tiresome.

I'm unsure of yor age or level of experience, perhaps when you reach my age you wil be capable of original thought instead of requiring those of others to backup your opinions.

I see...ambiguous reference to possible age and experience that you may or may not possess. I don't require anyone to back up my comments. If posting links to sites of the foremost teachers of 'reality' based self defense is construed as needing someone to back me up, then there's nothing that can be said for you. Lack original thought...I ought to ban you. You have spent this entire discussion on two separate threads deigning not to respond to my posts in favor of whining and preaching to me about the wonders of original thought and grace under fire. When I reach your experience level....

[gazza]

Your basic argument is along the lines of there is no thinking in a confrontation. He who is the most aggressive and makes the first move will undoubtedly win. You also argued that you are incapable of keeping calm when under threat.

Before knocking this back, read your previous posts. If this is not what you meant it is irrelevant because that is what you said.

Your inability for calmness when under pressure is what eluded me to a lack of experience. This may not be the case but I will not make any apologies for your own inability to express yourself.

A calm mind is the the soul of the art i study and teach. Calculated risk taking and adaptability. I have tried to have a reasonable discussion with you but your inability to read between the lines is frustrating. It was you who jumped on my posts in both threads so please do not turn things around.

If banning me will make you feel better, or make you feel that you have won some kind of battle then please go ahead as I have more important things to worry about. Best of luck with wherever it is you are going.

[ryanhall]

Evidently you are unaware that people do not get banned here. It was a joke. Lighten up.

Your basic argument is along the lines of there is no thinking in a confrontation. He who is the most aggressive and makes the first move will undoubtedly win. You also argued that you are incapable of keeping calm when under threat

There must be something wrong with your brain. That is the only explanation for your lack of reading ability. He who hits first has a huge advantage. Confrontations don't last long enough for protracted thought, and when you are in fight or flight mode, parts of your brain come to the forefront while others recede. This impedes the kind of thought you seem refer to (maybe I'm not reading between the lines...--it's not like you would be responsible for making others understand your point through a well-thought out and well-written argument rather than what you have put forward). The 'if he does A I do B' nonsense doesn't work. Period.

Also, there is a major difference between remaining completely calm and having the ability to think ultra clearly.

You said:
1) "Another way of looking at it is why would you not want to have the versatility to strike your opponent in any area with any part of your body?"
2) "Sometimes taking a risk with a flashy move will surprise an opponent"
3) "I can't believe you are structuring an argument arund anger and frustration as opposed to calm thought. If you are incapable of calm-though when confronted perhaps that is something you should work on"
4) "It's controlled aggression, not an all out release at the first given opportunity"

I said:
1) "Because kicking to the head is unnecessarily risky and has a very low benefit to danger ratio. You don't need to be able to hit someone in the eye with your toe. How can you praise boxing and still advocate flashy technique?"
2) "More often it will result in you eating a piece of the floor and a boot after that"
3) "Where did I say anger? I said aggressiveness. Calm thought is nice (I happen to like it a whole lot), but you will NOT be calm when adrenaline is coursing through your veins at a mile a minute. Your knowledge comes into setting people up, recognizing set-ups, maneuvering things (you name it, it falls under this category) to your advantage, and picking a tool to use. When the fists are flying, you can not expect to be cool and collected."
4) "I don't recall saying anything about 'all-out release at the first opportunity.' Frankly, your putting words in my mouth is tiresome."

Your inability for calmness when under pressure is what eluded [sic] me to a lack of experience

Your nonsense about total calm in the face of high stress situations is what tipped me off to yours. You lie if you tell me that you are able to think as clearly in a life-threatening situation as you do now. Make-believe time is over. Do you even have the smallest understanding of emotional inertia, adrenal response, fight or flight, etc.? I am sure that you do not. But your style focuses on staying completely calm, so therefore you will, right? I'll bet you advocate myriad techniques as well so that you will be able to deal with anyone and anything that comes your way--after holding back to observe his style and weaknesses, of course.

How about explainging yourself? Or are your age, experience, and 'style' too mysterious and secret to mention in anything other than vague generalization?

Last but not least:

I'm unsure of yor age or level of experience, perhaps when you reach my age you wil be capable of original thought instead of requiring those of others to backup your opinions

This is akin to you becoming beligerant with me for pointing you in the direction of Albert Einstein's work in a discussion about Physics. These people are the best out there, and they all seem to agree with one another to a greater or lesser degree. If you don't see anything of value, then you might want to consider that something's not quite right with what you're doing. Perhaps you should read Blauer's site. It's full of thinking and psychological stuff that would interest you (as well as me). I think you'll find that you don't really have a handle on this one. Maybe you'll learn something, son.