Let's keep it real on what the best martial art is..

[crazyjoe380]

Even thought it has flaws..


Brazilian Jiu Jitsu..

it proved it already. I'm talking about before anyone knew anything..


this style compared to others.. no matching.. muay thai boxing is deadly but the a style that can counter it is jiu jitsu..

but now everything is mixed up and it's even better.. but against just that style..


boxing vs bjj

mt vs bjj

judo vs bjj (same family of style)

wrestling vs bjj (proven by gracie vs severn)

S.h.o.o.t vs bjj (proven by gracie vs shamrock part I )


now imagin those were real fights.. with no tap out.. on the street.. those people that fought the bjj guy would be living to upgrade the style..


BJJ Has beaten them all. It took all of them getting together to beat one style...


so u need jiu jitsu as your base or you wont make it..


case closed.

[Kingston]

for sport fighting.

[ryanhall]

What Kingston said.

[Tom Yum]

I agree.

I think people serious about self-defense need some kind of grappling skills. BJJ is not invincible, but its taylor made to let a realatively smaller guy use leverage and technique to beat a more powerful one (Shamrock vs. Gracie). Even during their re-match, it was a draw. Royce Gracie likes to fight without rounds.

However, a thaiboxer who could train to defend against bjj would have a good chance at winning. Sakuraba beat Gracie in one of their matches; Sakuraba is kind of a jack of all trades when it comes to MMA.

Outside of the ring, what are the chances that a respected martial artist will pick a fight with a black belt in bjj? Probably rare. Unless BB in bjj start mugging people it could happen. But if that happens, we are in serious trouble.

[crazyjoe380]

If any of you take Bjj then you just shitted on yourselves.. that's all i have to say..


It's still Jiu jitsu.. Jap Jiu Jitsu.. same shit..


And you guys can't read..


I said the first time.. of course everyone can beat a ju jitsu fighter cause everyone can read..


The first time.. bjj was brought out main stream.. it couldn't be stopped.. not even in japan..


Bjj is used as non sport..

Kingston.. what martial arts do you take and .. umm.. since you think bjj is only good for sport..

[Tom Yum]

"BJJ Experience"
The reason why bjj is so effective is because Helio Gracie studied and refined Traditional JJ for over 70 years. During those 70 years in Brazil, he took on any fighter, any style, any weight class with no rounds. He fought professional boxers, karate masters, wrestlers, judo black belts, brawlers and even his own instructor (??) And has since remained undefeated in those types of matches.

There are no other master instructors I can think of that have fought for as many years as he and beaten so many fighters. The only other person I can think of who has been involved in challenge matches is Gene Labelle, who has fought against other stylists in the U.S. since the 1950's.

"Ring/Street Tested Styles"
Brazillian jiujitsu came to America with more "real" fighting experience against other stylists than any other art, with such few rules.

The only other art that shares this status is muay thai (stand-up). During the 70's and 80's karate/kung-fu and TKD fighters took turns in exhibition matches against the Thai fighters. They all got beaten.

[brokenelbow]

But Muay Thai has been beaten by BJJ and Sanda fighters, so is Muay Thai broke? It's the fighter and the training that wins in the ring and on the street.

[Great Sage]

Ah... Another thread about the Gracie marketing machine.

Here are some things to consider about the first UFC's.

Royce Gracie and perhaps Ken Shamrock were the only professional fighters. Everyone else were amatuers or retired veterans past their prime.

The skill level of fighters THEN, is not even close to the caliber of fighters that surfaced after they realized the potential of MMA. Past UFC fighters could not compete against professional boxers... The fighters now CAN.

MMA guys have always been around, but the sport never took off until now. When UFC took off, MMA guys started getting involved and BJJ became beatable because the Brazilians were fighting against other professionals, not mere amatuers. Ofcourse, today we have amatuers who are very well trained.

Not taking anything away from BJJ... It is very effective. Royce Gracie opened many eyes to their inner fears. Until then, many MA's had thrived on theories, etc... Now they must prove it.

Helio Gracie was a great Martial artist, but even he was tossed like a sardine by Kimura in the World Judo Championships.

[ryanhall]

For about two seconds, I thought the posters here might be above arguing over what style is best. I was obviously wrong. Aren't there better things to talk about?

Good posts by Great Sage and Tom Yum.

[ramus]

best art is kickboxing/muaythai period. but it helps to add grappling.

[ryanhall]

best art is kickboxing/muaythai period. but it helps to add grappling.

You heard it here first, folks. Ramus has found a new best art. Two weeks ago it was Hapkido, but now that he will start kickboxing some time in the near future (once he sorts out the foot fungus problems), it is the best style in the world.

Ramus,
Do you actually think before immortalizing yourself in words?

[ramus]

of course not

[Toudiyama]

It does show what is wrong with certain arts, has nothing to do with technique but with teaching respect and humility
Even if you are the champion, there will come a time where you will no longer be the champ, either because you lost or no longer willing to compete
Who here has as much time to spend in the gym as the Gracies do?
At least in Europe most fighters will have some daytimejob untill they become a champ because the amount of matches isn't that high, so it it still very hard to make a living of it AND therefore hard to spend more time in the gym
Don't compare the masters to students of other arts, compare people of equal training time otherwise do not try to compare the arts

[Lizard]

You also have to remember that styles never compete, only fighters. It was Gracie that won, whether or not learning BJJ helped him to win is another matter. If I fight a three foot tall woman who does BJJ and I win with Muay Thai does it mean that Muay Thai is better than BJJ? No. Secondly, there is no best style, only styles that work for different people. So: BJJ worked for Gracie, it HELPED him to win many fights, that does not make it the best style ever. Ryanhall is right, the "My style is better than yours" argument is as old as MA itself.

[Tom Yum]

All things being equal, it is the fighter not the style that determines the bout. That's how the outcomes are decided today. There are many more pro fighters and training methods adapt to techniques used in bjj,wrestling, boxing and muay thai.

I think the post was about style vs. style matches back in the early 90s and how BJJ was dominating. True that Ken and Royce were the only 2 professional fighters.

BJJ and muay thai have been beaten; I was comparing how at one time, these styles were fierce (and still are today) because of the training methods and fight prep.