badly trained karate

[Lizard]

I feel silly starting a new thread just for this but it needs to be said. Some karate is just pathetic. I went to the gym recently and happened to see the karate people. They don't hit pads, they don't spar, they just walk up and down punching the air. They are improving technique but you need to hit pads if you want power and you need to spar if you want to learn how to use moves. And if that wasn't bad enough they did a move where they stepped back, did a mid block and then punched with the arm that blocked. The distance from their hand to the target was about half of what you would have for a jab so it was weak, their arm wasn't in a good position to punch so it wasn't very fast, it didn't even look impressive. I spent the rest of the day trying to figure out why they had done the move like that, it really annoyed me. It would have been much better to punch with the other arm. Does anyone know why the move is done that way? One day I will go in and tell them that their style and method of training is flawed, and if they deny it, I will challenge them.

[Ryu (JKD?)]

Why does it bother you? Let them train that way if they want.
If it doesn't work, they'll figure it out.

Going in there to challenge people is

1) something a kid does (how old are you?)

2) Rude, and can also get you into legal trouble if you're not careful.

3) A way to get your ass beat by a "bad karate" guy who turns out to be an ex wrestler or something LOL.

People do MA for different reasons. You're not God's gift to the "unenlightened" so just settle down and train yourself.

Ryu

[Lizard]

I suppose you're right. But some of them are probably under the impression that karate is useful for self defence. I just want to say to them "Thai boxing is better for self defence, better excersise and in many ways more fun. Why waste your life with karate?" I'm not insulting all karate but this is a particularly bad school. OK I won't chanllenge them... for now. And what about the weak punch? It annoys me so much...

[kengar]

Originally posted by Lizard
One day I will go in and tell them that their style and method of training is flawed, and if they deny it, I will challenge them.

Quick way to get your ass beat.

3) A way to get your ass beat by a "bad karate" guy who turns out to be an ex wrestler or something LOL.

Couldn't there be a good karate fighter in that class?

But some of them are probably under the impression that karate is useful for self defence.

This is something that pops up from time to time and saying that karate in general is useless for self defense in ignorant. Do a lot of schools fail to properly teach their students how to defend themselves and fight in the street, sure they do, but that doesn't condemn the art and all its practitioners. I know of the punch your talking about and I believe it is to defend against a low kick, but it would't work for any other than getting a yellow belt.

[Great Sage]

Lizard,

Isnt' what you're saying now a direct contradiction of what you said earlier? SEE THREAD BELOW... I mean come on... Whatever happened to freedom of expression? In the past, I may have said that some styles are crap, but at least I acknowledge that they have certain qualities... and if someone wants to retain all the crap, that's their business.

In truth, very few modern styles are proven in combat. Masters basically theorize or pass on what they believe to be good techniques. As I've said before, just because your styles founder used this technique centuries ago, doesn't make it gospel... But that's beside the point. The important thing is conceptualizing. My concept of combat is whatever works in a particular situation, works.

Originally posted by Lizard
I constantly see threads along the lines of "No BJJ is the best MA" "No MT is because its got elbows" "But gracie beat up that MT guy". I'm unlikely to ever fight again, and even if I do, training isn't everything. What about martial arts that are good excersise or are fun to do, or make good sports? TKD improves flexibility, breaking bricks in karate makes you feel powerful, MT is good for cardio-vascular excersise, aikido lets you feel one with the universe. MAs can do more than just teach you to fight. It all depends on what your goal is, if my goal is to learn to chop a melon with a samurai sword, then for me, kendo is much better than BJJ or MT.

[Lizard]

I'm not insulting all karate but this is a particularly bad school. I know that it seems like a contradiction but what I said was: Self-defence isn't everything, other things are important such as excersise and fun. The karate I saw in there was not good excersise and it was not particularly fun. Well this thread has certainly made me look foolish, but I knew the risks when I decided to write it. Now let us never speak of it again.

[kengar]

Well this thread has certainly made me look foolish

Don't take it too badly.
You are probably right about that school, I now go to the Y and I see them dong TKD and some of the techniques that are done in the women's class make me shake my head. It's great that they're training, and its not my business so I just do what I'm there for, work out.

[Lizard]

I just feel that they should know that what they are doing isn't good for self-defence. Maybe they like to pretend they are in a kung fu movie or something. OK I'll try to ignore them. At least this way if I ever fight one of them I'll have an advantage in that my style is better... for self-defence. If I tell them then I lose that advantage, besides they would probably just irritate me more by saying something like "You just don't understand the ki energy of a karateka". Best not to interfere. Thanks for the advice.

[ryanhall]

I would not go into a school and challenge someone for the hell of it. What are the possible outcomes:

1) I hurt somebody and win. They stop having fun training. No gain because I beat on somebody I had almost no chance of losing to.
2) I lose.

Nothing is gained by either of these outcomes.

I have told women on a few occasions that what they were doing was not going to work for them in terms of self defense. I felt it was my responsibility. I taught them a bit afterwards. I wouldn't bother someone's training for no reason, though. If someone is enjoying what they're doing, let them do what they want.

Originally posted by Lizard
Well this thread has certainly made me look foolish, but I knew the risks when I decided to write it. Now let us never speak of it again.

Nah. Let us speak of it after all. The thread hasn't made you look foolish at all. You have. Who cares if they trained in a way that you seem ineffective? This idead that you must make them believe what you believe is particularly disturbing. Where you a Nazi in a previous life?

[Lizard]

"Where you a Nazi in a previous life?"

NEIN!

How was the German exam Adolf?

[jukado1]

Lizard: there are many styles, schools, and instructors who teach complete garbage and call it karate/self-defense/gung fu and the main reason is they don't know better. and incedentaly there afraid to venture out in the real world, because they are afraid that they WILL discover what they do is crap and their ego can't stand that. instead of going in and beating the heck out of them, try to get to know them and help them to learn something and improve. most karate folk would like to be good but don't know how. i've gone in to a couple of schools that were not to good, but by working out with the instructors, just as a martial artest that had nowhere to train was able to help them learn without being embarresed, that way help to improve their students without hurting the instructors, who were nice peaple, just afraid of change. train hard, train smart.

[platinum_angel]

Originally posted by Ryu (JKD?)
Why does it bother you? Let them train that way if they want.
If it doesn't work, they'll figure it out.

Going in there to challenge people is

1) something a kid does (how old are you?)

2) Rude, and can also get you into legal trouble if you're not careful.

3) A way to get your ass beat by a "bad karate" guy who turns out to be an ex wrestler or something LOL.

People do MA for different reasons. You're not God's gift to the "unenlightened" so just settle down and train yourself.

Ryu

lol i just figuered that out.

i went to martialtalk to learn about stysema and i saw a forum about karate. and youdn't you know it there was a thread about criticisms. i just had to let my ego get me and try to tell them their art was ineffective. after they got pissed they banned me lol.

i still think karate is shit but i'll keep it to myself for now on.

[swan104]

You can't just force someone to accept your views that a certain style is crap, even though you are 100% sure it is. Challenging someone to a fight is not clever, and will just make you look like a thug. If things escalate and you get arrested etc, then that will just make martial arts look bad in general.

There are a lot styles I don't like in general, but each to their own. I also know there are many people out there that train in so-called crap systems that can kick my ass.

If you feel so frustrated with the inefficiency of the system and what you saw, then you can always have a chat with the instructor of the school. Discussing things like civilised human beings is far better than getting yourself in a fight.