Style DOES Matter...

Great Sage · 06-05-2003, 05:55 PM

The argument, “It’s not the style, but the fighter...” doesn’t hold as much weight as most people believe. There are exceptions, but for the most part, STYLE DOES MATTER.

Anyone who’s ever played team sports knows the importance of a coach. A style is very similar to a coach — it dictates your strategic process. In a fight between a karate man and a jiu jitsu stylist, you may argue that whoever gets their shots in will win... However, I will argue that it is much easier to take someone down than it is for them to get a solid kick or punch on you. And in the event that you are kicked or punch, your forward momentum will usually carry you into grappling range, or offer you a limb to work with.

I wouldn’t say that ground fighting styles are better than stand-up, but I will attest that many of them are more effective. A guy with 20 years of Monkey Kung-fu will most likely lose to a BJJ Brown Belt. Why? Because Monkey Kung-fu is not grounded in effective, sound strategy.

A TKD guy will not prevail against a Muay Thai fighter. Muay Thai concepts are more functional: elbows, knees, low kicks etc... While TKD features an overreliance on high fancy kicks that can easily be avoided. Fancy kung-fu and karate styles are even worse for fighting purposes.

Style is less important when fighters are cross training. Then, it’s a matter of conditioning and training. In a MMA fight, it becomes more of a chess game.

Dave3006 · 06-05-2003, 07:15 PM

Style does matter.

Lets follow this arguement to it's logical conclusion. Hypothetically, lets say my fighting style was a long lost secret art where I only stabbed people with my left thumb. I trained day and night for years. Would I win if I stuck to this style vs. a good boxer.

Would it be the style or the man?

Old Fat Kenpoka · 06-05-2003, 07:34 PM

Dave: The thumb fighter would lose. Style does matter. And, there is a reason that the thumb art was "long lost".

lssanjose · 06-05-2003, 08:42 PM

style does matter but it's not the prevalent mentality. Strategety wise style does come into consideration. You're certaintly not going to try to take down a trained grappler when you're grappling game is somewhat questionable. It's only a matter of strategy where style matters. But as far as one thing being more effective than the other, it's all about perfect timing. On either end it could appear that one style is more sufficient another. But it's more important to see why that person that studied a particular style was able to do what he wanted to do.

platinum_angel · 06-05-2003, 09:17 PM

i agree. style does matter. you will always here karate practitioners say that it is the individual or the instructor that makes those practitioners bad fighters. i don't believe that is the case. sometimes it is. but alot of the time there will be people who just trained in karate. sure their good fighters after a while. but just think what he would be if he directed all of his training to cross training or bjj he would be about a 500X better fighter. WHY. because karate isn't that great of a style. so yes of course style matter. its not everything but it does matter. and that is what alot of martial artists sometimes fail to see. their so caught up in how great they think their art is no matter what.

Nick · 06-05-2003, 09:49 PM

Don't you people get tired of this? I joined martial arts forums to get have some inciteful conversations, not to repeatedly reassure myself that I'm better than others because I'm a Thai boxing-grappler.

Later...

lssanjose · 06-05-2003, 10:05 PM

most of the time. yes I do.. But I was just interested on what he or she had to say on the matter and this is the last i 'll speak of this

platinum_angel · 06-05-2003, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nick
Don't you people get tired of this? I joined martial arts forums to get have some inciteful conversations, not to repeatedly reassure myself that I'm better than others because I'm a Thai boxing-grappler.

Later...

we are not doing that. i don't even take thai..............but i will be

cry me a river

ryanhall · 06-06-2003, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Don't you people get tired of this? I joined martial arts forums to get have some inciteful conversations, not to repeatedly reassure myself that I'm better than others because I'm a Thai boxing-grappler.

Actually, Gents, I agree with Nick.

Kingston · 06-06-2003, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ryanhall

Actually, Gents, I agree with Nick.

you should lock stupid threads like this Ryan. I think we ALL know what the best style is....

Its quite obvious.

ryanhall · 06-06-2003, 03:00 AM

The problem here is there are too many 'inciteful' posts, and not enough 'insightful' ones.

**Thai Bri** · 06-06-2003, 06:34 AM

But they are all "in site".

ps - I agree with Great Sage for once. I think we only say "style doesn't matter" because we are bombarded with "my style is better than yours" arguments. Style matters, but to nothing like the extent people commonly think.

Lizard · 06-06-2003, 08:18 AM

It's the fighter who is fighting, it is the fighter that will win or lose. The fighter's style should be seen as part of the fighter, his style is what techniques he uses and how he uses them.

brokenelbow · 06-06-2003, 09:32 AM

It's the training that matters. I've seen people do cardio muay thai which is the same movements as muay thai, but these people couldn't fight there way out of a paper bag. Serious training for a specific set of rules will usually beat half ass non-focused training within those rules.

Lizard · 06-06-2003, 09:39 AM

Things like Tae bo really confuse me. Want to learn to fight? Go to a Muay Thai/Brazilian JiuJitsu place. Want to get fit? Go to a gym/jog. Want to lose weight? Stop eating and move around more. Want to look like a complete idiot? Tae bo!!!

06-05-2003, 05:55 PM	#1 (permalink)
Great Sage Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Nowhere, USA... Posts: 510 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Style DOES Matter... The argument, “It’s not the style, but the fighter...” doesn’t hold as much weight as most people believe. There are exceptions, but for the most part, STYLE DOES MATTER. Anyone who’s ever played team sports knows the importance of a coach. A style is very similar to a coach — it dictates your strategic process. In a fight between a karate man and a jiu jitsu stylist, you may argue that whoever gets their shots in will win... However, I will argue that it is much easier to take someone down than it is for them to get a solid kick or punch on you. And in the event that you are kicked or punch, your forward momentum will usually carry you into grappling range, or offer you a limb to work with. I wouldn’t say that ground fighting styles are better than stand-up, but I will attest that many of them are more effective. A guy with 20 years of Monkey Kung-fu will most likely lose to a BJJ Brown Belt. Why? Because Monkey Kung-fu is not grounded in effective, sound strategy. A TKD guy will not prevail against a Muay Thai fighter. Muay Thai concepts are more functional: elbows, knees, low kicks etc... While TKD features an overreliance on high fancy kicks that can easily be avoided. Fancy kung-fu and karate styles are even worse for fighting purposes. Style is less important when fighters are cross training. Then, it’s a matter of conditioning and training. In a MMA fight, it becomes more of a chess game. __________________ The sage experiences without abstraction, And accomplishes without action; He accepts the ebb and flow of things, Nurtures them, but does not own them, And lives, but does not dwell.

06-05-2003, 09:17 PM	#5 (permalink)
platinum_angel Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: heaven and hell Posts: 714 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	i agree. style does matter. you will always here karate practitioners say that it is the individual or the instructor that makes those practitioners bad fighters. i don't believe that is the case. sometimes it is. but alot of the time there will be people who just trained in karate. sure their good fighters after a while. but just think what he would be if he directed all of his training to cross training or bjj he would be about a 500X better fighter. WHY. because karate isn't that great of a style. so yes of course style matter. its not everything but it does matter. and that is what alot of martial artists sometimes fail to see. their so caught up in how great they think their art is no matter what. __________________ In order to experience true peace you must first overcome true hardship. remember the wind, for it flows through all of us. I like smeg-ma chips. for all those who i offend............i don't give a shit

06-05-2003, 09:49 PM	#6 (permalink)
Nick Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 194 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	... Don't you people get tired of this? I joined martial arts forums to get have some inciteful conversations, not to repeatedly reassure myself that I'm better than others because I'm a Thai boxing-grappler. Later...

06-06-2003, 03:00 AM	#11 (permalink)
ryanhall Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 1,247 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	The problem here is there are too many 'inciteful' posts, and not enough 'insightful' ones. __________________ "Ray, when someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!"

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06-05-2003, 07:15 PM	#2 (permalink)
Dave3006 Novice Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mission Viejo, CA Posts: 37 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Style does matter. Lets follow this arguement to it's logical conclusion. Hypothetically, lets say my fighting style was a long lost secret art where I only stabbed people with my left thumb. I trained day and night for years. Would I win if I stuck to this style vs. a good boxer. Would it be the style or the man?

06-05-2003, 07:34 PM	#3 (permalink)
Old Fat Kenpoka Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Silicon Valley, CA Posts: 36 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Dave: The thumb fighter would lose. Style does matter. And, there is a reason that the thumb art was "long lost".

06-05-2003, 08:42 PM	#4 (permalink)
lssanjose Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Location: SoCal Posts: 145 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	style does matter but it's not the prevalent mentality. Strategety wise style does come into consideration. You're certaintly not going to try to take down a trained grappler when you're grappling game is somewhat questionable. It's only a matter of strategy where style matters. But as far as one thing being more effective than the other, it's all about perfect timing. On either end it could appear that one style is more sufficient another. But it's more important to see why that person that studied a particular style was able to do what he wanted to do.

06-05-2003, 10:05 PM	#7 (permalink)
lssanjose Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Location: SoCal Posts: 145 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	most of the time. yes I do.. But I was just interested on what he or she had to say on the matter and this is the last i 'll speak of this

06-06-2003, 06:34 AM	#12 (permalink)
Thai Bri Premiere Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 5,423 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	But they are all "in site". ps - I agree with Great Sage for once. I think we only say "style doesn't matter" because we are bombarded with "my style is better than yours" arguments. Style matters, but to nothing like the extent people commonly think.

06-06-2003, 08:18 AM	#13 (permalink)
Lizard Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 985 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	It's the fighter who is fighting, it is the fighter that will win or lose. The fighter's style should be seen as part of the fighter, his style is what techniques he uses and how he uses them.

06-06-2003, 09:32 AM	#14 (permalink)
brokenelbow Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 520 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	It's the training that matters. I've seen people do cardio muay thai which is the same movements as muay thai, but these people couldn't fight there way out of a paper bag. Serious training for a specific set of rules will usually beat half ass non-focused training within those rules.

06-06-2003, 09:39 AM	#15 (permalink)
Lizard Registered User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 985 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Things like Tae bo really confuse me. Want to learn to fight? Go to a Muay Thai/Brazilian JiuJitsu place. Want to get fit? Go to a gym/jog. Want to lose weight? Stop eating and move around more. Want to look like a complete idiot? Tae bo!!!

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