The Art of Kicking

[Great Sage]

Few people can kick well, or kick in a real fight. How many times have we seen a MMA match where the guy is supposed to be a kickboxing or Muay Thai champ and he never throws a kick... Or if he does, it’s a very sloppy kick. You often notice a kick that lazily snaps out there and wobbles at the ankles.

Many people spend countless hours on the banana bag but they never put these skills into use. Kicking, like punching or sumissions can be developed to a degree of effectiveness. Ofcourse, you’ll need to rely on timing and coordination, not to mention good technique.

There’s an overreliance on the MT Low Roundhouse kick. While this kick is useful in MT, since you break down your opponent, in real life it’s not always ideal because you’re talking about seconds, maybe minutes.

One of the most underrated kicks is the side kick. When thrown low or medium, this kick is hard to stop and see. It comes right at you and can knock the wind out of you. Most people can take a roundhouse to the thigh, but a side kick to the knee cap is different.

Another kick is the hook kick. Use this to hook inside the knee. It’s a fast kick that relies on the natural momentum of your leg’s tendency to retract.

Few people throw high kicks, but they have their place — distance permitting. High kicks come as a surprise when it’s a brawl, not a MMA tournament. Attack with hands or low kicks, then when he least suspects it, go to the head...

[Szczepankiewicz]

Yes, please kick me in the head.

Please, please pretty please.

[Great Sage]

Originally posted by Szczepankiewicz
Yes, please kick me in the head.

Please, please pretty please.

I think you've already taken one two many there... What good what that do now.

[mushinmaster]

thank you for sharing....your, ehh, wisdom?

[Benjamin Dover]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Szczepankiewicz
Yes, please kick me in the head.

Please, please pretty please.
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LOL!!! This from the guy who recommended Tai Chi for someone who was looking for self-defense. You lost all credibility with that comment. As for head kicks there is a time and place.

The problem with head kicks is the people executing them. You have a lot of crappy fighters who also happen to have crappy technique trying these kicks in the ring or out in the street. A head kick is done when the opportunity presents itself NOT because you can kick that high or because you want to do it.

Anyone who is at the national class level in TKD, bare knuckles Karate (Kyokushin) and Kickboxing who are above avg in boxing skills can take your head off when the opportunity presents itself.

I would love to see you in the ring Spanky. Maybe you can use some Tai Chi footwork to evade the kick!!!

[Tom Yum]

Kicking is not allways a good initial technique. Pro boxers will time your rear roundhouse (after eating 1-2) and nail you with a right cross.

Its a good counter attack and good to mix in with punching. What you say of MT champions or practicioners not using kicks is incorrect. Check out the following fights:

Mo Smith vs. Tank - Smith systematically took out Tanks legs.
Pedro Rizzo vs. Dan Severn - Rizzo landed one rear round house to the legs and ended the fight.

Yves Edwards - uses head kicks really well along with the clinch knee.
Peter Aerts - they don't call him the lumberjack for nothing.
Ernesto Hoost - has ended many fights with KO kicks to the head and legs.

[fullcircle]

Benjamin, Amen!!! Absolutely correct!

[Szczepankiewicz]

I would love to see you in the ring Spanky. Maybe you can use some Tai Chi footwork to evade the kick!!!

See, that's where your assumptions get you into binds. You won't catch me in the ring dodging high kicks with bare knuckle brawlers and TKD 'experts'.

Tai Chi is much better for self defense than TKD, Karate, and most other arts that most people train. Go back and read what I said and why I said it.

If you wanna fight then hell yeah, let's do some BJJ/MT, karate, kung fu, and boxing and then we could have a ref in the ring and judges and ring girls and maybe a brass band?

But fighting was not the topic at hand, as I recall.

Credibiltiy? You know, if I didn't think you thought I was credible, Ben, I don't think I could bare it.

[ryta1203]

Dude, I seem to be agreeing with you on every post. The problem with all these people is that they are still convinced that ring fighting is REAL fighting. NOT THE CASE. Sport is for pretty boys.

OH yeah, I forgot to say also, that one of the main reason Muay Thai/Kickboxing guys throw kicks in the ring is because is MANDATORY, not because they actually believe they are really effective.

Save the kicks for the ring, don't bring that weak stuff out here meat.

[Szczepankiewicz]

Dude, I seem to be agreeing with you on every post.

Oy, that will change soon enough!

Ring fighting is real fighting.

Real fighting with refs and padded floors and time limits and EMTs on standby and it proves everything you ever wanted to know about self defense. not.

What does Tai Chi teach: Footwork, breathing and the ability to stay relaxed.

What does FMA, BJJ, Boxing, wrestling, Judo, MT and RBSD teach you first and foremost?

Ah yes....Footwork, breathing and the ability to stay relaxed.

Well wattya know? Hot diggity damn!

[Lost Ronin]

Originally posted by ryta1203
Dude, I seem to be agreeing with you on every post. The problem with all these people is that they are still convinced that ring fighting is REAL fighting. NOT THE CASE. Sport is for pretty boys.

OH yeah, I forgot to say also, that one of the main reason Muay Thai/Kickboxing guys throw kicks in the ring is because is MANDATORY, not because they actually believe they are really effective.

Sport is for pretty boys? I bet you wouldn't say that in front of somebody like Tito Ortiz or Frank Shamrock. Well my friend, you seem to be extremely knowledgeable, tell me, what is the closest thing to real fights? I suppose you have something that "simulates" real fighting, like your forms or partner drills where the dude punches about six inches in front of his intended target and he purposedly does not fight back, even tough he could? Sport fighting isn't the ultimate simulation of a real fight, but its as damn close as your gonna get, unless you are man enough to go into a ring and gouge out eyes and kick people in the nuts just for the sake of proving your point. I didn't think so, so do us all a favor, put some gloves on and try out some of your theories, when you notice that you lack the ability to string together combinations or you are wheezing and out of breath after 3 minutes of sparring, I suggest you rethink your opinions of us "pretty boy" sport guys.

In regards to your statement about kicks, Thai boxers are not required to throw kicks at all. Have you ever been at the receiving end of a well delivered Thai kick? If you have, I don't think you would be saying that they are innefective. Do your homework and actually try some of the stuff that you "study". If not, then let us "sport boys" fight and go shut up and practice your forms.

[Lost Ronin]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Szczepankiewicz
[B]
Tai Chi is much better for self defense than TKD, Karate, and most other arts that most people train. Go back and read what I said and why I said it.[B]

It's a known fact to any half-witted martial artist, fights in rings are very different from fights in the street. Asphalt, multiple assailants, weapons, etc. are stuff that are not encountered in a ring. True, I agree. Now, I disagree with the fact that Tai Chi is much better for self defense than most other arts. It depends not on the art, but on the way that the individual who practices the art trains. I bet this sounds kinda weird huh? It did to me too when Matt Thornton said it to me. You see, Tai Chi can be a good style, but they don't train realistically. You are doing moving meditation and developing Chi for crying out loud! And you tell me that it would be better on the street than Karate? What about Muay Thai or BJJ? Punching and kicking in the ring is the same as punching and kicking in the street (although you have to be aware of certain pitfalls.) An armlock from the guard is the same too, even though there are certain things that you must be aware of. So in essence, what you practice in a "sport" setting is almost identical to what you would do in a streetfight, there are some details that you have to keep in mind though. I would never go down to the ground unless there was no other choice. Likewise, I would not try to outsrike a group of guys that assaulted me, I would run. You see, most traditional training does not develop the attributes for a fight, you are not learning to fight anyone, you are learning to punch air.

[ryta1203]

I sure wish people would actually read the entire post before responding and sounding like absolute morons. I am not saying that boxing (muay thai or otherwise) is not a good workout (the whole wheezing thing or whatever) but that it also has severe limitations in a real life situation.

ps. Do you even know what a Ronin was?

[mushinmaster]

ow ow ow ow ow!@#!@

this is hot!

I would not try to outsrike a group of guys that assaulted me, I would run.

i heard SZ needs to work on that instead of developing his chi

I agree with our lost ronin friend, but only because ryta1203 is such a bad ass

[Szczepankiewicz]

Oh boy, here we go again....


Lost Ronin, fix your quote, that's buggin' the hell outta me!


Tai Chi and yoga would be better for self defense, not because of what they teach you in regards to strikes and grappling.

They, as I have stated in the very original post, will keep you from getting into bad situations in the first place. You see, all of us super powerful martial baddasses think we can open up a can any ol' time we want to. I don't think this attitude is realistic.

Blue belts in BJJ and black belts in TKD, Karate, Kenpo etc are less likely to back down from a confrontation if they view it as a chance to 'prove themselves' in 'combat'. Once someone gets that superiority complex going they are going to start getting sloppy and putting themselves into 'more dangerous' situations.

I am a male, ex powerlifter, who has 5 years of martial training. My wife is female, slight build, and no experience. I put myself in harms way because I am confident (or arrogant). To her the danger is real and she avoids bad situations with much more discrimination than do I.

Striking and grappling skills are important, but not nearly as important in the grand scheme of self defense as keeping a cool head in stressfull situations, proper footwork and other body mechanics, and some good breathing techniques.

All of which transfer readily to other arts if you so desire.

So, getting way back to my original post of Tai Chi it is a good first art for training in self defense

Tai Chi will probably lose in a street fight or a sporting fight, however, tai chi will provide you with some excellent tools in self defense that the more physical 'I'm gonna kick you in the head' arts do.