Why was Belfort ever considered great?

[Shimora]

I must have missed something when Belfort burst onto the scene. The guy has this rep for being one of the greatest MMA'ers ever. People still talk about him being one of the top middleweights along with Frank Shamrock and Sak. My question is why?

My recollection of Belfort is this. He fought the mighty SAFTA master John Hess at Superbrawl. He easily took advantage of Hess's blubber guts and lack of speed or technique and beat him down. Good effort but nothing really amazing. The he fought Tra "Traumatised" Telegram and managed to beat him down also. Good effort but once again, nothing amazing. Who was next..Scott Ferrozo? LOL, give me a break. Whats so impressive about that? Then was it Tank Abbott? If anyone watches either of those fights they will see they were stopped too early by BJM. Ferrozo wasnt hurt at all and neither was Tank. If those fights hadnt been prematurely stopped the outcomes may well have been different.

When he finally fought a top class fighter in Randy Couture he was beaten like a red headed step child. Then he came back and did a grappling only "work" with Joe "The Ghetto Man" Charles. Yeah that certainly made Vitor a top class fighter in my opinion. Sakuarba humiliated Belfort when he fought him. It was rumored that Doctors had to fight to save one of Belforts legs after the damage Sak had caused to it. He also fought Silva at some stage didnt he? Well he did beat him so I guess thats one fight he should get credit for winning. Still, hardly top contender material.

Why do people see so much potential in Belfort? Lets face it, his hands arent even that fast. Compared to Hess, Ferrozo and Tank who's hands wouldnt look fast? Belforts boxing skills were way exagerated otherwise he would have been on the Brazilian Boxing team. Remember that bum that the UFC showed saying he had trained Del A Hoya and that Belfort was one of the best ever? He was full of $hit. He was the freakin janitor at the gym and the closest he ever got to Del A Hoya was when he was collecting Del a Hoya's dirty jock to take to the laundry. I dont remember his name..Al Skanky or something. Some reference.LOL

So why is Belfort still held in high regard by many? His record is not even as good as Tank Abbott's or Gary Goodridge's. He's no number 1 contender.

[NHB Spice]

Although you are trolling us here you do have some points. He has lost a bunch of fights, before this post, I could hardly think of any fights he won in in the last 2-3 years. To my knowledge, all his wins, except over Yvel, were by early knockouts. To me, he seems extremely one-dimensional.
But, I don't know that much about him, I could be wrong.

Peace.

[Shimora]

When you start to stereotype people as always trolling it indicates that you dont think for yourself. You see a couple of others call me a troll when they dont agree with me and now you are repeating it.
You admit that essentially you agree with what ive said. Despite that you still alledge that I am trolling. This is a disturbing trend I am witnessing on this forum more and more.
Just for the record I am not trolling. I happen to believe that Belfort has achieved a great status in the MMA world without really earning it. If anyone can explain to me why he gets more respect than fighters with better records than him I would greatly appreciate it.

He is a young and gifted athlete with excellent striking skills (for MMA), and strong grappling skills. He has only lost two fights, both to top contenders.

There is the question of his heart though.

He is very good, but he is not the best. He has that potential, and that is what people rave about.

Also, many people feel Frank Shamrock ducked Belfort because he turned down an opportunity to fight him in the UFC. Shamrock attended the Arnold Classic instead, saying it was a better career opportunity. He was also pissed about not being paid by SEG, if I recall.

[Pit Dog]

Originally posted by Shimora
... BLAH, BLAH, BLAH ... If anyone watches (the Tank and Ferrozo) fights they will see they were stopped too early by BJM. Ferrozo wasnt hurt at all and neither was Tank. If those fights hadnt been prematurely stopped the outcomes may well have been different ...

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH ... He also fought Silva at some stage didnt he? Well he did beat him so I guess thats one fight he should get credit for winning. Still, hardly top contender material.

Why do people see so much potential in Belfort?

Well, Shimmy, your first postulate is pure hypothetical bullhockey, any your second admission is laughable. Yeah, old Tank and Scotty sure were threating to Vitor flopping around the ground like dazed whales.

And it was "big" of you to give Vitor credit for "one" of his wins. No, Silva wasn't a top-ranked guy at all. I mean he had only finished destroying Mike Van Arsdale, who was regarded as THE man to beat at the time. But I am sure Vitor is thankful for your generosity in giving him credit for this win, even though you take credit from the opponent. I'm not sure who should take credit for the rest of Vitor's wins, since you won't give it to Vitor, but I'll leave the issue of who gets the glory up to your wisdom and insight.

Certainly, John Hess would have given Royce more problems ... and was tougher than Van Cleef, Hackney, and De Lucia. But, whatever, the reason why people THOUGHT Belfort was going to be great was the way in which he so easily dispatched giant men who would have given Royce fits and so Vitor appeared to be headed on his way to stardom. He appeared like a young supercharged Ruas, but yes he ultimately choked when he faced Couture.

Your "wisdom" as to Vitor's true quality has the benefit of a few years of hindsight, so one cannot help but smirk at your troll (er, post). The fact is, I don't think there are many people left who think Vitor is headed for stardom anymore, but one never knows.




[Edited by Pit Dog on 11-13-2000 at 09:55 AM]

[Maxximus]

Tank and Ferrozo weren't top competitors but let's not forget that they were two tough SOBs. They give the best a run for their money. The fact that Belfort was able to simply run through those two big brutes like a hurricane proves that he has certain skills to be reckoned with. Belfort also used his barraging attacks to run over Silva within a matter of seconds. The guy is talented. There's no question about that. What holds him back from being a top competitor is his mediocre grappling skills and his inability to last through fights that he can't win within the first ten seconds of the match. But the skill that he does have is extremely formidable. ANY top competitor who steps in the ring with him without showing the proper respect and caution towards his attack power will be kissing the mat before they can even blink. He may not be the best, but few people in MMA can do what he does. Gotta give credit where it's due.

[Beatle]

Pit's high on the the fumes from his momma's panties. Face facts, Vitor is a steriod bloated quasi balckbelt with amateur boxing skills, a glass chin, not to metion a quitter's mentality. Pit grabbed on Vitor's coat-tails because he got a hard-on seeing boxing being used effectively in the UFC for the first time. Now that it is apparent that Vitor is a curr he doesn't want to admit he was wrong, like a little bitch he continues to scream and shout. WHat a dick.

Pit- just admit you're wrong and STFU.

[Vitor29]

"What holds him back from being a top competitor is his mediocre grappling skills and his inability to last through fights that he
can't win within the first ten seconds of the match."

Funny, his last two fights he won by Decision, meaning he fought for the entire time limit. THe guy has matured and isn't fighting like a caged animal anymore (even though even the ones who bitch about Vitor liked seeing that).

[Ryu (non-working password]

Sempai, mind if I take some trolling lessons from you?
I think I need them.

Ryu

[Pit Dog]

Hey C*ckroach:
I already did admit I was wrong about Vitor. So why don't you now admit you are a punk, coattail rider of ME?

Everywhere I go, there you are with something nasty to say. That makes you a hanger and follower, not a leader. See, I always strive to be the lead dog, because otherwise the view is pretty bad.

How's the view from following behind me?

That's all right though, you've assumed your rightful position as a heel nipper. I hope you enjoy your view.

[Tiger69]

Vitor's BJJ level is like purple belt for the Gracies' standard of belt ranking. Most of his victories were from his boxing skill not BJJ. Vitor has lot to learn to become a champion.

[Vitor29]

"Vitor's BJJ level is like purple belt for the Gracies' standard of belt ranking. Most of his victories were from his boxing skill not BJJ. Vitor
has lot to learn to become a champion."

So? Ribiero was a BB and look what happened to him.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Tiger69, there is always a Gracie ass licker like you around. The funny thing is that Royce and Rorion, who started talking that purple belt crap wouldn't last but a few seconds with Vitor. If the Gracies' belt ranking involves much higher standards then why did Royce look like such a "blue belt" against the unsightly Wallid Ismail? Why did they get their ass kicked at Rorion's tournament by the Machado students? It's so easy for them to sit back and talk crap while other guys are actually out there fighting.

[Tiger69]

"So? Ribiero was a BB and look what happened to him."

Ribiero is a great sport JJ player but he is not a NHB fighter. He's BJJ skill is based on sport JJ not a combative JJ that the Gracies are made of. His arrogancy was the key of his defeat. He is one of the fool that thinks he is the Gracie like the typical BJJ idiots who gets their ass kicked in the ring all the time.

[Tiger69]

Miyagi san, I understand your point. However, Royce is a human. He cannot win forever. He came out after 5 years of absence with an injured back not fully healed and fought against an active competitor. I was definately surprised by way he lost to Wallid but that kind of shit can happened to anyone when you fight like 1000 times. And as far as Torrance losing to Machados, those competitions are all point based, time limit rules. The Gracies made the art as to be effective in reality fighting not to be effective for the points. Do you understand my point, Mr. Miaygi?