Palm Strikes

[Lizard]

Thai Bri has pointed out several times that he prefers to use palm strikes rather than punches. A palm strike is less likely to damage your hand or wrist but I don't think it would do as much damage. I have been told that Rear hand palm strikes with the fingers pointing upwards are good and so are 45 degree upward rear hand palm strikes. Bri Thai has also mentioned a lead hook palm strike with the fingers pointing away from you. I would like to know: whether or not a palm strike is weaker/slower than a punch, how effective is the palm hook, is there a palm strike version of the jab? And does anyone have any tips for doing a good palm strike? How long should I wait before I pull my hand back (if you leave your hand there it makes the strike weaker).

Also I would like to know if anyone has any combonations that involve palm strikes or any good applications for the (like when to use them or who to use them against). And can I just do a punch but change my hand formation or is a different technique needed for a palm strike (is it the same movement).

[CHOKE UK]

Lizard,
I cant believe no body has added any posts to your thread.

But dont feel let down my reptillian friend,
as this only goes to show that you are "ahead of your time" !

An old head on young Lizard shoulders !

In time people will realise that you were infact a pioneer !

remember, they laughed at Christopher Columbus when he said the world was round.
Several hundred years ago when he first posted on this very forum,
about martial arts "around" the other side of the world,
people did the same and ..... ignored his thread !
........who's got the last-laugh now !

Lizard, your time will come !

[kengar]

Palm strikes can be very effective, and can do damage depending on hit and location. I practice 2 different palm strike methods.
1) A snapping strike that I retrack immediately. This I would use when just like a regular straight punch. Standing in front of the other person. Arm & wrist should be relaxed and you snap your palm into your target. As soon as you snap into the target your hand should be coming back. Some target; nose, chin, even eyebrow area can jolt the brain. A few weeks ago I got hit on the tip of my nose with and upward strike, I almost forgot what the sickening feeling was like.
I practice this with a Yellow Pages book mostly. Rip the front cover off and have someone hold in with 1 hand against their forearm. Once you start improving on the technique you'll see and they'll feel the difference.
2) It is more of the thrust and smash. If I was extremely close I would thrust my palm into the target pushing the head in the opposite direction and then the hand could claw and gouge on the way back. Target are all over the head. A good palm to the ear doesn't feel good.
If you remember back to UFC 3 Keith Hackney dropped a 600lb guy with an open hand palm/slap on the side of the face. they can work but I don't know if you should be looking for a knock with the hook. I guess the really depends on the you.



Ken

[Toudiyama[NL]]

Palmhel or fist depends on the target, if the target is hard you use soft weapons if soft use hard weapons, most of the time you can hit just as hard, if not harder with a palmheelstrike
just try hitting a wall, when would you hit harder, knuckles or palmheel?

[CHOKE UK]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by kengar
[B]Palm strikes can be very effective, and can do damage depending on hit and location. I practice 2 different palm strike methods.
1) A snapping strike that I retrack immediately. This I would use when just like a regular straight punch. Standing in front of the other person. Arm & wrist should be relaxed and you snap your palm into your target. As soon as you snap into the target your hand should be coming back. Some target; nose, chin, even eyebrow area can jolt the brain. A few weeks ago I got hit on the tip of my nose with and upward strike, I almost forgot what the sickening feeling was like.
I practice this with a Yellow Pages book mostly. Rip the front cover off and have someone hold in with 1 hand against their forearm. Once you start improving on the technique you'll see and they'll feel the difference.
2) It is more of the thrust and smash. If I was extremely close I would thrust my palm into the target pushing the head in the opposite direction and then the hand could claw and gouge on the way back. Target are all over the head. A good palm to the ear doesn't feel good.
If you remember back to UFC 3 Keith Hackney dropped a 600lb guy with an open hand palm/slap on the side of the face. they can work but I don't know if you should be looking for a knock with the hook. I guess the really depends on the you.
.................................................................................................... ....
YES i do remember keith hackney and putting down a big old lump.
BUT the reason was that he actually had a busted hand, and couldnt punch.

Although I can the use for occasionally using a palm
but if i am that close i'd normally either hook, head butt , elbow, or better still "gauge".

Although damage can occur, if you use full-force in punching,
damage can happen to fingers if a palm strike mishits.

I still prefer a knuckleduster !

[kengar]

BUT the reason was that he actually had a busted hand, and couldnt punch.

No! He knocked the guy down with an open hand at the begining of the fight. He broke his hand because once the guy was down he started punching him in the side of the head.

[Ripley]

In Lau Gar forms (kata) we practice two straight out palm strikes - one upwards to the bottom of the jaw and one to the nose. I note that in all the set syllabus attack/counter combinations there's only one palm strike and that's to the base of the spine as a set-up for a sweep. I'd feel very confident using a palm strike to someone's face if needs be. It would be effective.
However, as we spar with gloves and use fists - I'm pretty sure that in the heat of the moment I'd fall back to a fist jab and hook.

[Kiwi]

One style I encountered briefly mentioned that they prefer the palm heel strike because they do not want to risk opening the skin to blood disease. If you have ever tried training punches without protection you will have experienced how easy it is to remove the skin from your knuckles. Although I am not convinced that it is a good measure of force or damage and do not generally practise arts that engage in such activity, I tend to be able to palm heel straight through some fairly soid boards, whereas a punch requires much more guts and pain tolerance.

The only trade off I can find is reach (a few inches?), although a palm to the chin does place your fingers nicely into your opponents eyes.

Kiwi

[Toudiyama[NL]]

I some mention the danger of the fingers being force back, I myself keep the fingers folded into a flat fist(for jap stylist hiraken) this prevents it from happening
Only when I use it for a sliding kind of block will I not curl the fingers

When attacking the body I might adjust it a little so it looks like a combination between knifehand and palmheel ( fits nice between hips and ribs)

[Thai Bri]

The head is like a big boney box with jelly in it. And all you really need to do is jolt it hard enough to knock the brain into the skull and, hey presto, concussion.

There is no need for bone on bone contact. You are not trying to punch a hole oin the skull. That is the wrong kind of impact. Admittedly, the more padding there is the harder it is to jolt the head. But palm heels have minimal padding, far less than the lightest boxing glove. Like someone said, try hitting a wall. Which can you hit hardest with, your fist or your palm?

People punch because it has been ingrained in our culture. We are bombarded by images of it. And what happens when boxers/kick.thai boxers train? They wrap and cover their hands. And even then they sustain injuries. The knuckles can cut (leaving you open to disease, and it looks bad if the cops turn up), the knuckles and tiny bones in the hand can break, and the wrist can buckle.

I never cover my hands when training. Ever. I hit with the palm heel, hammer fist and edge of hand. Sure I get the occasional bruise, but they have never stopped me finishing the session, and they are gone before the next one. And many oif the techniques have the same body mechanics as boxing punches anyway, so I haven't lost anything.

If you want to train sport, then go for it. Good luck. If you want to train to defend yourself in the street, then you'd be daft to practice techniques that are just as likely to put you in the hospital as the bad guy.

Its a classic case of self delusion. Everyone knows the knuckles are susceptible to injury. But they have invested so much time and energy into punching that they feel like they'd be throwing it all away, so they keep convincing themselves that they'll be alright.

[Lizard]

I think I'll start training my palm strikes then. Toudiyama, by "flat fist" do you mean like the leapard fist of shoalin gung fu? I've been thinking about the hammer fist as well, perhaps I'll start a thread on hand formations in general.