The Ultimate in Martial Arts

falcon3624 · 07-07-2003, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JaredExtreme
GRACIEAUSTIN, you mean you actually found some TKD BB that would fight? What exactly happened?

I had found some TKD guys that wanted to fight because of lack of knowledge of BJJ. The best one I found had a 2nd black in TKD, and had alot of training in Judo and Hapkido as well. He told me that he had won several state championships as well. The guy is like 6'3" and 220lbs. To make a long story short........2 fights.......1st ended with shoulder lock........2nd ended with rear naked choke. Made short work of him in both matches. All the other TKD guys I have went against put up little or no resistance and the submission was almost instantaneous. They make it so easy to take them to the ground because most of them always go for that "trusty" roundhouse kick when you start to move in, and that is always the last mistake when I get a hold on that leg.

Tom Yum · 07-07-2003, 10:34 AM

As big as you are falcon, you would have crushed the TKD guy...lol. TKD guys lean back to chamber kicks because they love to kick high (not a stable position) - upon a re-chamber you could have closed the gap and slammed him to the mat or thrown a thai kick to his supporting leg. Cool.

falcon3624 · 07-07-2003, 10:55 AM

What happened just about everytime I fought one is I would fake the shoot making them cock back for that big bad roundhouse kick and when it came for my head I would shoot under and grab the base leg and get the other on the way down. Just about everytime they were so stunned when they hit the ground it was easy to move to a full mount. The other times they were so inexperienced on the ground they did not know to close the guard on me and I could move about freely. I found that even with a guy that is about my size it is easy to beat them because they don't know what to do on the ground and they panic and expell so much of their energy right away struggling to get back to their feet that they burn out fast.

Tom Yum · 07-07-2003, 11:06 AM

You said it right.

Its not TKD itself that is bad, its the lack of preperation against all kinds of fighters. There's a TKD guy who competes in Thailand (Manson Gibson) who has trained with the Thais. He has prepared himself against full contact fighters and has KOd many with fancy spin kicks.

I think most BB TKD guys (without preparation) would get seriously hurt against a decent pro- Thai kickboxer. Without grappling, they would get taken down relativley easy.

falcon3624 · 07-07-2003, 11:20 AM

I think alot of the problem is they spend too much time "tapping" each other and not "hitting" each other. I could stand out there all day tapping someone with all these fancy kicks and stuff but I might really hit them with it and realize that it doesn't hurt them that much because I might not get that much power with it. It is hard to know at what exact point you need to make contact to inflict maximum damage........almost impossible if you have never hit anyone for real. You're definately right about how TKD really needs to change their style up to take on different styles becaue although TKD is effective against TKD I have seen very few other arts that it is really all that effective against.

And all this talk about "true masters" is a good example. I know a guy down here that teaches TKD and is suppose to be pretty good at it. He was in a bar one night and smarted off to another guy that is a good freind of mine. What the big bad TKD guy did not know is that this guy is a boxer........and a good one at that. To make a long story short the TKD guy cocked up for one of those fancy head kicks and got caught with a straight right to the jaw. The TKD ended up leaving on a stretcher while the boxer was sitting there laughing it up saying "Who the hell does he think he is????Jean-Claude Van Damme????"

fullcircle · 07-07-2003, 11:29 AM

Were all of these TKD guys retarded? I have a BB in TKD, I'm not going to come after your head, especially if I know you're a BJJ practitioner!

Great Sage · 07-07-2003, 11:33 AM

Well, most guys who feel they have to warn you of their credentials are usually powder puffs. Frankly, I've never been a big fan of "Tournament" style TKD. In a controlled spar, I'm not surprised that a BJJ guy will come out on top. In a real situation, you'd be surprised at what people will do when they feel their life is on the line. They're like a cat that has been cornered.

As far as comparing BJJ with other belt systems... I don't formally train in BJJ, but the BJJ systems looks to be working relatively well. However, I've always trained in the martial arts for self-improvement and skill. All the other little perks can come later. I realize a belt acts as sort of a certificate of recognition or motivation factor, but it's irrelevant in a real fight.

For me, there's no thrill in knowing I can defeat a 10 dan karateka, or what not... It's the feeling that I am well trained and can hopefully deal with a situation, should it arise. The toughest guys I've fought in professional bouts were the guys that didn't have black belts, or things like that. They simply trained hard in techniques that worked.

Tom Yum · 07-07-2003, 11:33 AM

Boxing: The Sweet Science!!!

Its very versatile. Pretty good self-defense, excellent conditioning and learning to deal with contact. I'll have to agree in most stand up situations the better boxer has the advantage. Unless the better boxer has to go up against Thai rules - then it changes the odds.

falcon3624 · 07-07-2003, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fullcircle
Were all of these TKD guys retarded? I have a BB in TKD, I'm not going to come after your head, especially if I know you're a BJJ practitioner!

I don't know if they were retarded or not....could have been I mean look at what they're taking.....lol. I'm just messing with ya, I got a BB in TKD too...I was walking past a TKD place and they were giving them away right on the sidewalk for $20 so I said what the hell might as well.

Great Sage · 07-07-2003, 11:43 AM

I think a lot of TKD guys will attempt a head kick even when they know you have a grappling knowledge – this has happened to me each time I visited a TKD gym. However, for the most part, I have visited gyms in the past and they automatically assume I'm all TKD, then start throwing fancy kicks, whereby I initiate a takedown to submission. Also, I love using the submarine kick against TKD guys. Unfortunately, the instructor ALWAYS comes over and tells me, "we're not doing that here... those are not TKD rules."

One has to wonder what rules these TKD guys will follow in real combat.

Ghost · 07-07-2003, 11:44 AM

I thought you had to be retarded to do TKD in the first place?

falcon3624 · 07-07-2003, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ghost
I thought you had to be retarded to do TKD in the first place?

I think the debate is still open on that....lol

Ghost · 07-07-2003, 11:47 AM

"Unfortunately, the instructor ALWAYS comes over and tells me, "we're not doing that here... those are not TKD rules." "

In some ways that is fair enough.

If you came to my Thai gym you could throw but not go for a submission. You would be told the same. and also told if you want to do submissions you should go to the Gracie Barra school in central london

fullcircle · 07-07-2003, 12:03 PM

I'm assuming the $20 included your Aikido belt? If not, you got ripped off!

Ghost · 07-07-2003, 12:06 PM

The only thing that got ripped FullCircle was your ass when you handed over your $20 for your your belt.

I guess thats the day your circle truly was FULL.

07-07-2003, 10:34 AM	#17 (permalink)
Tom Yum Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Here and there. Posts: 11,573 Groans: 1 Groaned at 5 Times in 5 Posts	As big as you are falcon, you would have crushed the TKD guy...lol. TKD guys lean back to chamber kicks because they love to kick high (not a stable position) - upon a re-chamber you could have closed the gap and slammed him to the mat or thrown a thai kick to his supporting leg. Cool. Last edited by Tom Yum; 07-07-2003 at 10:50 AM.

07-07-2003, 11:33 AM	#22 (permalink)
Great Sage Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Nowhere, USA... Posts: 510 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Well, most guys who feel they have to warn you of their credentials are usually powder puffs. Frankly, I've never been a big fan of "Tournament" style TKD. In a controlled spar, I'm not surprised that a BJJ guy will come out on top. In a real situation, you'd be surprised at what people will do when they feel their life is on the line. They're like a cat that has been cornered. As far as comparing BJJ with other belt systems... I don't formally train in BJJ, but the BJJ systems looks to be working relatively well. However, I've always trained in the martial arts for self-improvement and skill. All the other little perks can come later. I realize a belt acts as sort of a certificate of recognition or motivation factor, but it's irrelevant in a real fight. For me, there's no thrill in knowing I can defeat a 10 dan karateka, or what not... It's the feeling that I am well trained and can hopefully deal with a situation, should it arise. The toughest guys I've fought in professional bouts were the guys that didn't have black belts, or things like that. They simply trained hard in techniques that worked. __________________ The sage experiences without abstraction, And accomplishes without action; He accepts the ebb and flow of things, Nurtures them, but does not own them, And lives, but does not dwell.

07-07-2003, 11:33 AM	#23 (permalink)
Tom Yum Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Here and there. Posts: 11,573 Groans: 1 Groaned at 5 Times in 5 Posts	Boxing: The Sweet Science!!! Its very versatile. Pretty good self-defense, excellent conditioning and learning to deal with contact. I'll have to agree in most stand up situations the better boxer has the advantage. Unless the better boxer has to go up against Thai rules - then it changes the odds. Last edited by Tom Yum; 07-07-2003 at 11:37 AM.

07-07-2003, 11:43 AM	#25 (permalink)
Great Sage Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Nowhere, USA... Posts: 510 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I think a lot of TKD guys will attempt a head kick even when they know you have a grappling knowledge – this has happened to me each time I visited a TKD gym. However, for the most part, I have visited gyms in the past and they automatically assume I'm all TKD, then start throwing fancy kicks, whereby I initiate a takedown to submission. Also, I love using the submarine kick against TKD guys. Unfortunately, the instructor ALWAYS comes over and tells me, "we're not doing that here... those are not TKD rules." One has to wonder what rules these TKD guys will follow in real combat. __________________ The sage experiences without abstraction, And accomplishes without action; He accepts the ebb and flow of things, Nurtures them, but does not own them, And lives, but does not dwell.

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07-07-2003, 10:55 AM	#18 (permalink)
falcon3624 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Louisiana Posts: 946 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	What happened just about everytime I fought one is I would fake the shoot making them cock back for that big bad roundhouse kick and when it came for my head I would shoot under and grab the base leg and get the other on the way down. Just about everytime they were so stunned when they hit the ground it was easy to move to a full mount. The other times they were so inexperienced on the ground they did not know to close the guard on me and I could move about freely. I found that even with a guy that is about my size it is easy to beat them because they don't know what to do on the ground and they panic and expell so much of their energy right away struggling to get back to their feet that they burn out fast.

07-07-2003, 11:06 AM	#19 (permalink)
Tom Yum Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Here and there. Posts: 11,573 Groans: 1 Groaned at 5 Times in 5 Posts	You said it right. Its not TKD itself that is bad, its the lack of preperation against all kinds of fighters. There's a TKD guy who competes in Thailand (Manson Gibson) who has trained with the Thais. He has prepared himself against full contact fighters and has KOd many with fancy spin kicks. I think most BB TKD guys (without preparation) would get seriously hurt against a decent pro- Thai kickboxer. Without grappling, they would get taken down relativley easy.

07-07-2003, 11:20 AM	#20 (permalink)
falcon3624 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Louisiana Posts: 946 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I think alot of the problem is they spend too much time "tapping" each other and not "hitting" each other. I could stand out there all day tapping someone with all these fancy kicks and stuff but I might really hit them with it and realize that it doesn't hurt them that much because I might not get that much power with it. It is hard to know at what exact point you need to make contact to inflict maximum damage........almost impossible if you have never hit anyone for real. You're definately right about how TKD really needs to change their style up to take on different styles becaue although TKD is effective against TKD I have seen very few other arts that it is really all that effective against. And all this talk about "true masters" is a good example. I know a guy down here that teaches TKD and is suppose to be pretty good at it. He was in a bar one night and smarted off to another guy that is a good freind of mine. What the big bad TKD guy did not know is that this guy is a boxer........and a good one at that. To make a long story short the TKD guy cocked up for one of those fancy head kicks and got caught with a straight right to the jaw. The TKD ended up leaving on a stretcher while the boxer was sitting there laughing it up saying "Who the hell does he think he is????Jean-Claude Van Damme????"

07-07-2003, 11:29 AM	#21 (permalink)
fullcircle Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Denver Posts: 178 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Were all of these TKD guys retarded? I have a BB in TKD, I'm not going to come after your head, especially if I know you're a BJJ practitioner!

07-07-2003, 12:03 PM	#29 (permalink)
fullcircle Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Denver Posts: 178 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I'm assuming the $20 included your Aikido belt? If not, you got ripped off!

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