Who has the hardest kicks?

[Ghost]

Well the argument has begun who has the hardest kicks?

Muay Thai or TKD or something else( )

[Szczepankiewicz]

Savate baby!

[fullcircle]

How can that be answered? There are alot of variables, and who do we assume is throwing the kick?

[Tom Yum]

Sadly many American TKD schools produce black belts who cannot kick with power. Reason being that quality is not maintained. So if you take the 'average' TKD practicioner after 1 year and the 'average' MT practicioner after 1 year, I would have to go with the Thaiboxer.

Why? Thaiboxers are conditioned harder and work on throwing 2 or 3 kicks well and using them constantly in sparring or defense drills. Wheras TKD practicioners aren't pushed as much and are busy learning 10-12 different kicks without necessarily sparring or working against an advancing opponent. Plus TKD schools (for the most part) do not emphasize conditioning.

After 5 years, then you see that the average TKD practicioner can kick pretty hard and quite fast even at the same level as the average MT practicioner of 5 years. The impact difference still exists. If you were to watch them spar with contact, you will notice that the TKD guy will get rocked alot more and knocked down more too. The reason being that fighting from a side stance is succeptible to getting the angle in boxing and is less stable against low kicks. Keep in mind all illegal techniques in TKD - head punching, kicking to the legs, kneeing, elbows and clinch work are all illegal in TKD

You could argue that the MT fighter hasn't seen certain kicks and is more succeptible to them, but keep in mind that 5 years of hard sparring prepares you better for fighting better than 5 years of target practice and two step sparring drills.

In the long-term both MT and TKD practioners can develop good power in their kicking techniques, allthough MT kicks are more devastating IMO. I think Master Toddy (Muay Thai) holds a BB in TKD and recommends his students learn TKD to borrow what is usefull.

No one will question the kicking power of a real Korean TKD master, just the thousands of Mc Dojang instructors who water down the art. You could allways spar against Master He Il Cho to see for yourself. The difference between this man and your average Mc Dojang is IMMENSE.

[falcon3624]

I had to go with MT cuz I have taken kicks from both styles and MT kicks hurt a whole lot more and do alot more damage.

[Thai Bri]

Which kick?

Thai Boxers have a great roundhouse. Many TKD have great side kick. It goes on and on.......

[falcon3624]

If a good Thai boxer and a good TKD guy was to fight and were only allowed to kick who do you think would win?

[fullcircle]

All things being equal, I would say TKD, more of an arsenal.

[falcon3624]

The TKD guy might do alright........til he takes that first MT leg kick....lol

[eXcessiveForce]

Are we talking about Power as in physics, Pain, knockdowns, Destructive power?

Thai kicks cause more pain.

Focused TKD kicks had do more physical damage Just because the area of impact is smaller with some kicks and therefore will be able to cause more damage.

Which does more damage a bullet or a cannon ball?

[falcon3624]

I know that alot of the schools that do TKD around here teach to make contace say on a roundhouse around the ankle. MT moves it further in on the shin itself. I have known many TKD guys around here that have hurt themselves just as much as the other guy from kicking them.

[Toudiyama[NL]]

In MMA ( in which forum we are) I haven't seen much proper MT low kicks instead of the shin they are made with the instep most of the time, of coarse this because of the fact that opponents keep distance but because of this the power is far less then in a MT match
But wouldn't people keep distance in a streetfight too?

When I trained Ashihara Karate, I did a low kick that started like a snap roundhousekick so by bending the knee, then at the last moment I used a quick (extra) hipmovement to drive it in, even if you do not use a lot of power the opponent/trainingspartner can feel the force

People here seem to think that TKD kick do not use the hip, a lot of TKD seem to do them that way yes, but is it the way they should be done, I don't think so

That's like the Bruce lee scene at the back of the restaurant showing the karateka how the chinese use the hip and then do excactely the same slipstep sidekick we practice in wado karate
As Shotokan is a bad representation of All karate, so are McDojos for TKD

As I stated in the other thread, I think it is because these guys are so flexible that they can make these high kicks without using much hipmovement, I had a couple of karatestudent who could do this, nice for WKF karate matches but we made clear that in the streets it lacks the power it needs , and here comes the use of walking up and down, though the basics we tried to force them to use the hips

some compare MT and TKD kick like being hit by a 2X4 or by a whip, a bit unfair don't you think, the whip doesn't way as much more like being hit by a broomstick than a 2x4

considder this,: if the speed at the moment of impact is important, the thai kick generates the power but also the speed from the hipmovement, a proper snapkick generates power from moving the hip , then the upper leg, stretching the leg while moving forewards that's 3 speeds superimposed on another

I could go into the science of it but have to leave for workt at this time and I do not want to bore you with stuf you already know

[Ghost]

With regards to MT vs TKD kicking only i would still go with MT.

The defence is a whole lot better, I just dont think the TKD guys would land that many kicks and like i have said before when they start getting shin blocks they slow down. The variety of kicks TKD has could go in their advantage a bit but there is no real difference between a oush kick and a side kick when blocking.

I would say the defenceive abilities of the average MT guy are much higher than the average TKD guy who never really seem to block anything.

[Ghost]

I would also like to point out that side kick is used alot in MT and yes i mean side kick not round house.

Its quite well disguised but look closer and you will see the thais using side kick quite alot, iuse it alot myself.

MT includes the front snap kick as well which comes straight up into the groin not pushing.

[falcon3624]

Most TKD guys don't guard when they strike. All too many times have I sparred with a TKD guy that goes for that high kick and just leaves the hands wherever. That might be fine for TKD when they teach you to move away from the kick, but in real life anyone who is smart is going to shoot to the inside of a high kicker the first time that leg comes up.......then what?

The problem with TKD is the what if factor. They too seldom consider what if someone shoots in instead of backing away? What if someone shoots in and goes staight for the legs? What if someone is going to kick for the knees? What if somone is not going to let you put on full padding for a streetfight?

I have found one major difference between TKD and MT guys. Most of the MT guys I know don't train with pads except for gloves, and most TKD guys I know only fight with full protective gear on. That might be fine in the ring but think about when you get in that first fight........If you are the MT guy you have been conditioned to take a hit pretty good, but on the other hand if you are the TKD guy you have been conditioned at taking padded hits only.