Jackie Chan, Jet Li, etc.

[RobertG]

Originally posted by Kleyman97
I stand corrected, HOWEVER, Jet Li never did anything save Wushu, which is NOT a fighting style. Wushu was formed when the Chinese government banned the practice of Kung Fu, so the populus created Wushu as a way of keeping their skills sharp without ever testing them on an opponent (until a real conflict occured). So basically, while Jet Li is extremely versatile due to year of Wushu, he cannot actually USE his skills, or at least not to my knowledge, because he has not actually learned a fighting style.

Saying Wushu is not a fighting style is like saying judo and karate are not fighting styles. Just like Shotokan and Kodokan were a synthesis of the martial arts of the day, Wushu is a synthesis of the Kung Fu styles in China. The "internal" core of Wushu comes directly from Tai Chi, Pa Kua and the like. The "external" core arts of Wushu come from the "Shaolin" styles, probably with a little bit of everything else thrown in (Wing Chun for instance). Almost all extant martial arts are in the same boat as Wushu. TKD, Hapkido, Aikido--all of these were synthesized from existing arts. Now you have JKD, MMA, etc. gobbling up every other art and becoming a new synthesis. Since its core comes from combat arts, I'm quite certain there are Wushu practioners who are capable fighters. Just like there are Judoka, Karateka and the like that can fight, and there are schools of the traditional synthesis arts that have more realistic training. I'm sure there are Wushu people that can't fight to save their lives. But that goes for any art.

Oh, yeah, further research has shed some more light. Some claim that Sanshou arose from Wushu. Those guys can fight. At the least we could say some Wushu folk cross-train in Sanshou and that they certainly get an excellent background in conditioning, footwork and striking in Wushu. Who knows, maybe Jet Li throws down Sanshou style sometimes. I'm not going to go around pissing him off.

[Ryu (JKD?)]

I friggin hate Jet Li....

Ryu

[Great Sage]

Yep, Wushu is a term that encompasses ALL Chinese martial arts, including Sanshou. Since the early 80's, Wushu trainers have noticed the lack of fighting skills by the Sanda aspect of Wushu and have required all Wushu participants to cross-train. Therefore, most Wushu demonstrators have a good working knowledge of fighting arts.

Furthermore, it's naive to assume Jackie Chan, Jet Li or Steven Seagal cannot fight. Jackie Chan got into plenty of fights as a young actor. In his biography, there's a story where he takes on a couple of thugs and when he ran away noticed one of the guy's tooth was stuck on his fist! As far as Jet Li goes, I would assume someone who has been training since early childhood has some understanding of fighting principles. That, along with his physical prowess can speak for itself.

[Kleyman97]

Why do you hate Jet Li?
Oh and I'd like to mention that for once I actually started a thread that actually got people talking, now that takes skill.

[Ryu (JKD?)]

Don't like his personality, or the concepts of a lot of his films.

Doesn't have much to do with his fighting style, but I do get sick of the "fly around on wires" bit too.

Ryu

[Kleyman97]

Whats wrong with his personality? When I met him he seemed very humble and quite spiritual. I don't see whats wrong with his films, in fact, other than the old Jackie Chan movies, they're the only ones I watch.

[ewod]

Originally posted by falcon3624
On the other hand some actors are for real:

Bruce Lee
Brandon Lee
Chuck Norris
Steven Seagal
Don "the dragon" Wilson

It goes both ways.

bruce lee is for real, but way to overhyped...a lot of people tend to label brandon lee a martial artist because his father was one...chuck norris has the credentials and so does seagal...don "the dragon" wilson is a kickboxer so I dont think I would put him in the same category as a martial artist...he did study kung-fu tho...

[ewod]

Originally posted by Great Sage
Yep, Wushu is a term that encompasses ALL Chinese martial arts, including Sanshou. Since the early 80's, Wushu trainers have noticed the lack of fighting skills by the Sanda aspect of Wushu and have required all Wushu participants to cross-train. Therefore, most Wushu demonstrators have a good working knowledge of fighting arts.

Furthermore, it's naive to assume Jackie Chan, Jet Li or Steven Seagal cannot fight. Jackie Chan got into plenty of fights as a young actor. In his biography, there's a story where he takes on a couple of thugs and when he ran away noticed one of the guy's tooth was stuck on his fist! As far as Jet Li goes, I would assume someone who has been training since early childhood has some understanding of fighting principles. That, along with his physical prowess can speak for itself.

great sage, jackie chan is a joke man, but youre right about jet li and steven seagal tho...I bet my bottom dollar they can hold their own in a fight in real life...

[Ryu (JKD?)]

Originally posted by Kleyman97
Whats wrong with his personality? When I met him he seemed very humble and quite spiritual. I don't see whats wrong with his films, in fact, other than the old Jackie Chan movies, they're the only ones I watch.

Haha, I've got my reasons. If you like him, that's fine. I don't like his films at all. I think a lot of them are degrading, stereotypical, and ill-made. (at least the ones he makes now) But that's just me. I'm pretty tight-assed about films anyway though LOL


Take care,
Ryu

[Pit Dog]

Lots of garbled facts here:

1. Chuck Norris trained with the Machados, not the Gracies.

2. Paul Vunak is the one who trained with the Gracies, and who said a person with as little as 6 mos training can defeat other black belts.

3. I agree. How does anyone know that Jackie Chan can't fight? Anyone that acrobatic, strong, and fast you'd better take pretty f-in seriously.

[ewod]

Originally posted by Pit Dog
Lots of garbled facts here:

1. Chuck Norris trained with the Machados, not the Gracies.

2. Paul Vunak is the one who trained with the Gracies, and who said a person with as little as 6 mos training can defeat other black belts.

3. I agree. How does anyone know that Jackie Chan can't fight? Anyone that acrobatic, strong, and fast you'd better take pretty f-in seriously.

no sir, I believe chuck norris has trained with the gracies as well...

[SweepEm]

I used to train at the Torrance Academy with Royce and saw several pictures of Rorion with Chuck Norris. Rorion did a seminar (I think in Texas) with Chuck Norris in a hotel ball room.

[eXcessiveForce]

Pit Dog is Correct.


Chuck Norris holds Rank with the Machados. In fact the Machados have been on Walker Texas Ranger as Special guests. Chuck may have done some training with the gracies as well but he continues to train with the Machados.

Vunak Trained with the Gracies.

And Jackie Chan, Anybody that has broken that many bones might damn well be unstoppable. Imagine if he is willing to destroy his body to make a movie what he might be willing to do to save his life. He does not proclaim to be a fighter but that doesn't mean he can't fight.

[eXcessiveForce]

Nice to see you posting Pit Dog, Haven't seen a post from you in over a year at least.

[Pit Dog]

Every now and then ya gotta see what's up on the ol Mousel board

Actually, it seems to have cleaned up a bit.

Sweep's still here

Yes, the Machados are who Norris has stayed with and is ranked with. And I reiterate, anyone as acrobatic and in shape as Jackie Chan should be taken very seriously.