Kung-fu Anyone?

[jmd161]

platinum_angel,

To be honest i do feel i wasted about 15yrs of my training,but i don't regret learning kung fu.I'm one of those students that i spoke of in that earlier post.I learned forms for yrs and did the kickboxing style sparring.I did'nt put in the effort or training i needed to.That's why i can speak about the reason kung fu has lost some of it's shine.I was lucky in the fact that i was always a good fighter before martial arts so it never came down to me having to use my kung fu.

The thing about stuff like that article you speak of.Is there are so many fakes out there that are in the public's eye.Many ppl still know nothing about kung fu so it's easy for them to fool people.Also you can't really tell someone's power from a picture.My sifu is 54 5'6" 130lbs and throws me around like a feather.I'm 6'1"-6'2" tall and weigh about 280-300lbs.You look at him and he does'nt look like he can do the things he does.

You'd be surprised how someone that really knows how to use the stance and their techniques can fight in that stance.Stances can be used in a fight ,but most times you would not stand in a stance to fight.You would slide into a stance while doing a technique.I've sparred against Bjj, and MMA ppl and have faired well.I really respect my current sifu.He has made sense of all those yrs of training.I really think Bjj has helped to open peoples mind in the kung fu world.You are now going to have ppl training much harder and preparing for different styles.

The sad thing about that is so many ppl claim to be Masters and Grandmasters but have no real understanding of kung fu at all.

jeff

[chris davis 200]

out of your 18 years of kung-fu do you think it would of been better spent training in some other art such as Muay Thai, JKD, or BJJ.

My sifu is 54 5'6" 130lbs and throws me around like a feather.I'm 6'1"-6'2" tall and weigh about 280-300lbs.You look at him and he does'nt look like he can do the things he does.

I think this is testiment to what you can gain in kung fu.

Basically, my point is that a lot of kung-fu styles are not rooted in sound systems. It is well known in Shaolin kung-fu that a few drop-out escapees carried the lineage of certain styles because the Temple was burned. Furthermore, few masters actually taught their best techniques... In fact, many went to their graves without ever teaching them.

Im affraid you are right here - alot of the time masters did not pass on their complete system so many systems became watered down.

As i say i am an internal kung fu practitioner, in ba gua (especially the Yin fu lineage) there is still a very strong transmittion of the origional art, ditto in the others but it is hard to find.

Re. the point about kung-fu including a number of techniques that wouldn't be applicable today - I'd have to agree. We train techniques like 'flower fist form' in the dojo, but we train them for conditioning and flexibility.

A big problem is that people (even teachers) of these form movements think that they are presicly aplicable to the real time fighting.

they are not.

The forms, the deep stances, the flowery movements, these are all designed to strengthes you, stretch you and build your foundation knowledge. Real fighting is a different thing.

I have seen some ba gua done at real speed and it is not as you would expect, no circle walking no big movements etc etc. just direct powerful small techniques that would drop a guy of any size.

Lets not look at the forms and the fighting sets and think they are real eh! lets look at what they are teaching.

[sun fist]

Originally posted by Lizard
There are many different styles of gong fu, some will be more effective than others. I've heard some good things about wing chun, but I don't think wushu would be very effective in a fight.

On the other hand, wushu looks good and probably improves balance and flexibility.

I have to agree that beleif in chi can be very bad for an art when it comes to real fighting.

Wushu isn't good for fights because all it is is a sport and a flashy dancing system in most cases. Many forms of kung fu are pretty effective though.

[tsefreeflow]

This is pathetic. You guys really have no idea, do you?

[platinum_angel]

yeah!!!!!!!!!! you have no idea. you think you do, but you don't

[chris davis 200]

About what>?

let me take a wild stab in the dark.

'MT is the best - kung fu is for fools'

or

'BJJ is the best - kung fu is pants'

or

'MMA are the best - kung fu is crap'



You guys are the ones wthout a clue!

I have fought on the street, in my proffession and in the ring - Internal Chinese arts have not let me down so far - so they must be doing something to help me out!

why not go and check out a reputable hsing i school (if you can find one) train there for a year or so then make a decision ok.

I have trained in MT, i have trained in Judo, i can make the comparison.

Try researching instead of assuming based on what 'other people' say.

[tsefreeflow]

You did take a stab in the dark. I am saying those downing the Chinese arts are fools. All of these that say that the chinese arts are watered down, to a point may be right, but how far can their JKD and mixed systems take them? Those are the most watered down so called fighting system in the world. They are very disrespectful to the arts and they only take little from everything and ending up with nothing, those are the people whom we try to avoid teaching because they take, and take, and take but never put back, and when they use it they truely have nothing that resembles true art or fighting. I have seen it, trained it and felt it. These mixed system is like the military for most, for those who cannot make it in the real world. Mixed systems are for those who cannot GET the real arts, where all of the real and true fighting is located, if your taught right. Talk to those who train these arts and listen to there reasonings, it makes no sense. Here is what I hear: "I want it fast and now!", "I dont want to go through all of the basic stuff that offers nothing to fighting!" just a few. If you get it fast and now, you miss a lot of what makes the art effective and workable. If you want to jump to more advanced stuff right away, you miss the basics which makes the advanced things work effectively. Take this, get two people, one who trains hard for 2 years in a structred Chinese system, Wing Chun, Bai Mei whatever, and take one who trains hard for 2 years in the mixed systems, and I gurantee the person with system under them will be much more devistating and effective than the other. I have seen it. (Of course it all depends on the person as well). But it not just the Chinese arts, its any art. Any whole system if picked carefully is more effective than taking a little from many arts. I see JKD people who show me pak sau and it is pathetic. I see JKD people do stick work, and it is pathetic. An they will say it is from Wing Chun or Kali or Eskrima but those are the ones with no idea. Because there is nothing they do that is correct to the art they are trying to portrait.

[chris davis 200]

Fairplay i was in the dark on that one!

Good post that i agree 100% with. some very true very good points.

Im just used to the 'BJJ and MT are the ultimate in combat - no one else comes close' responce.

To hear from a like minded person with similar experiences of Kung Fu and the MA's is greatly refreshing!

[Szczepankiewicz]

I gurantee the person with system under them will be much more devistating and effective than the other

I'd take that bet.

2 years is about how long it takes to get a black belt in quite a few of the more traditional arts. At that point I would assume that you're supposed to be proficient in the art.

YOU get to do what you want for two years, and I get to go train with MacYoung or Dimitri or Thompson or Barbito or Renzo or even Bri Thai and we'll have a go.


It's not that I dislike traditional MA, it's just that I think you're full of shit.

Spanky

[chris davis 200]

Ya dont have belts in kung fu!

Oh - n i dont think that 2 years would really be enough.

But again that depends on the training - if it was the long daily training with CV etc then yeh.

[Szczepankiewicz]

See Toudi,

More communists!!!!



Spanky

[tsefreeflow]

The fool who knows he is a fool is for that very reason wise.
The fool who thinks himself wise is the greatest fool of all


Spanky,
If you wish to drown,
do not torture yourself with shallow water, and remember this for yourself: A weak man can always develop into a strong man,
but a woman can never be a man.

[Benjamin Dover]

Kung pooh...I mean Kung Fu. Well, I am a purple belt in Gracie Jiu-jitsu, I am 7-0 in the ring in MT, started off with a black belt in TKD (I was a kid when I received it) and I have a brown sash in Chin-na Kung Fu.

In my opinion TKD taght me power, speed and timing and distance for my kicks. Gracie JJ...of course all the great ground stuff, MT good hand work and a nice strong defence...great boxing skills. Kung Fu...well....what not to do in a fight.....like use Kung Fu. What a joke. The grappling sucked and the stand up was impractical. It was the most time consuming of all the arts and the least useful.

I have never even met a Kung Fu guy willing to put it on the line in the ring. I don't even want to hear all this ring vs real crap either. If you can't even hit someone effectively in the ring how do you propose to use foul tactics (eye gouge, knee strike etc...)

KUNG FU SUCKS!!!

[tsefreeflow]

At this moment
there is nothing to do
but have a good laugh

[Grape_Ape]

Originally posted by Benjamin Dover
Kung pooh...I mean Kung Fu. Well, I am a purple belt in Gracie Jiu-jitsu, I am 7-0 in the ring in MT, started off with a black belt in TKD (I was a kid when I received it) and I have a brown sash in Chin-na Kung Fu.

In my opinion TKD taght me power, speed and timing and distance for my kicks. Gracie JJ...of course all the great ground stuff, MT good hand work and a nice strong defence...great boxing skills. Kung Fu...well....what not to do in a fight.....like use Kung Fu. What a joke. The grappling sucked and the stand up was impractical. It was the most time consuming of all the arts and the least useful.

I have never even met a Kung Fu guy willing to put it on the line in the ring. I don't even want to hear all this ring vs real crap either. If you can't even hit someone effectively in the ring how do you propose to use foul tactics (eye gouge, knee strike etc...)

KUNG FU SUCKS!!!

There are so many thing wrong with this post that I don't know where to start.