Is BJJ applicable to the streets? - Page 2

Great Sage · 08-08-2003, 11:24 AM

Chris,

By instintive, I mean cognitive recognition and application of techniques in any given situation. Regardless of your style, if an assailant wrestles you to the ground, BJJ skills are more suitable. As mentioned in my earlier post, if going to the ground will give a BJJ player the advantage, he'll go there. With five guys attacking you, going to the ground is not an advantage, it's more like suicide.

Aside from that, many BJJ techniques do not require that you're on your back. You're in the guard by default. Like many strikers, you have a misconception regarding BJJ. Submissions can be made from a standing position, mount and triple—all of which can be recovered into a standing position.

The only hinderance is when you fail to react or do not know how to react.

Szczepankiewicz · 08-08-2003, 11:40 AM

Quote:

With five guys attacking you, going to the ground is not an advantage, it's more like suicide.

Now come on Great One, are you actually suggesting that BJJ players can exercise common sense and good judgement? They are not programmed automatons who instantly pull guard and go for the 'tap out'?????

I don' believe it!!!!

Mr. Heel Hook · 08-08-2003, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Great Sage
Chris,

You're in the guard by default. Like many strikers, you have a misconception regarding BJJ. Submissions can be made from a standing position, mount and triple—all of which can be recovered into a standing position.

THANK GOD SOMEONE ELSE AGREES WITH ME ON THIS!!!!

spiderchoke · 08-08-2003, 07:30 PM

I don't think the question should be; Is Bjj/Gjj applicable to the streets? It should be can you apply it personally?

anything is applicable.

Norwegian Goat fighting is applicable if you have a goat and are prepared to use it.

It would be like saying chopsticks are not applicable for eating food. Simply because you are not sure or properly trained in their use.

"A man is not really beaten, until he is beaten with his own dog!"
.............Spiderchoke

"EVeryday spent training is one day closer to learning something."
.........Spiderchoke

**Thai Bri** · 08-08-2003, 08:26 PM

Keep back! Keep back!

I have a goat, and I'm not afraid to use it!

chris davis 200 · 08-08-2003, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Norwegian Goat fighting is applicable if you have a goat and are prepared to use it.

MWwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!!!!

That is funny!

gracilva · 08-09-2003, 02:48 AM

not rhetoric, just confident.
dont you agree that someone with little ground fighting expirience wouldn't last very long with an expierienced bjj'er.
i was just stating that you dont have to grapple on the ground for very long or even go to ground for bjj to be effective

Cadden · 08-10-2003, 12:46 AM

I am personally skeptical of BJJ's street effectiveness. Taking someone to the ground immediately poses many problems. It makes retreat (be it the pulling of knife or gun) much harder and perhaps even impossible if you are in a hold or they are ontop of you. Also, it makes being jumped by more opponents easier, as your mobility on the ground against others standing up is almost nil. Then there is the nature of the ground: it is well and good to grapple and ground fight on a mat, but when you are in a crowded pub or on a concreate sidepath, things change and you may cause more injury to yourself than your enemy.

I understand BJJ can be used as a stand up striking art, but I must say from what I have seen most of the striking is a means to take the fight to the ground, and can be better in every way by other striking arts.

On the street and in a bar or at a party (where fights most commonly occur) BJJ is not the most effective combat art, in my experience. It is too reliant on competition rules and assumptions.

I believe it is more logical and safer to keep the fight stand-up as long as possible and if you are taken to the ground, get up ASAP. When you are standing you are more aware of your surroundings, your opponents placement and intentions, you have more retreating options if necessary and you are at less risk of being taken by suprise from a group of attackers.

I always hear the pseudo myth that all fights end on the ground, and to that I say, yes and no. If you let the fight go to the ground or take it there yourself then fine, but I have been in many fights on the street and in no rules competitions and I have managed to stay upright almost exclusively, and when I was taken to the ground, was able to get up quickly and continue.

I see ground fighting as a side of fighting that is best avoided on the street, as it poses many problems that are not evident in Sport Fighting.

Mr. Heel Hook · 08-10-2003, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cadden
It is too reliant on competition rules and assumptions.

What in the craptacular statements....

Cadden · 08-10-2003, 12:51 AM

I explain it in my edit. And could you please back up your response instead of just throwing out made up insults.

Mr. Heel Hook · 08-10-2003, 12:54 AM

Yeah...yeah I did make that up on the fly didn't I. But yeah, anyway...it's all been said in the other post. Now I am going to take my time and make something else up for next time.

shasan · 08-10-2003, 03:34 AM

i think a lot of people are assuming that an "attackee" will have the choice of keeping the fight standing up or not.

Won't the fight go to the ground a lot of the time whether you want it or not?

In this case I don't really think there's any other choice, regardless of how many attackers there are... shitty deal though.

jules · 08-10-2003, 03:53 AM

About BJJ and the streets... Let's just put it this way.. Unlike most other martail arts BJJ has bee tested in the streets of Rio and all over Brazil. And if you know anything about Brazil... it's not soft at all. It's hard. It's works in the gettos of Brazil it will work just about anywhere.

Mr. Heel Hook · 08-10-2003, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jules
About BJJ and the streets... Let's just put it this way.. Unlike most other martail arts BJJ has bee tested in the streets of Rio and all over Brazil. And if you know anything about Brazil... it's not soft at all. It's hard. It's works in the gettos of Brazil it will work just about anywhere.

Someone speaks the truth instead of "it won't work on the 'streets' because..." Yes, bjj has been thouroughly tested in a very hostile city enviroment for a long time now.

jules · 08-10-2003, 10:33 AM

and for the record, if anything I am a MT man.

08-08-2003, 11:24 AM	#16 (permalink)
Great Sage Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Nowhere, USA... Posts: 510 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Chris, By instintive, I mean cognitive recognition and application of techniques in any given situation. Regardless of your style, if an assailant wrestles you to the ground, BJJ skills are more suitable. As mentioned in my earlier post, if going to the ground will give a BJJ player the advantage, he'll go there. With five guys attacking you, going to the ground is not an advantage, it's more like suicide. Aside from that, many BJJ techniques do not require that you're on your back. You're in the guard by default. Like many strikers, you have a misconception regarding BJJ. Submissions can be made from a standing position, mount and triple—all of which can be recovered into a standing position. The only hinderance is when you fail to react or do not know how to react. __________________ The sage experiences without abstraction, And accomplishes without action; He accepts the ebb and flow of things, Nurtures them, but does not own them, And lives, but does not dwell.

08-08-2003, 07:30 PM	#19 (permalink)
spiderchoke Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Des Moines, IA Posts: 134 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I don't think the question should be; Is Bjj/Gjj applicable to the streets? It should be can you apply it personally? anything is applicable. Norwegian Goat fighting is applicable if you have a goat and are prepared to use it. It would be like saying chopsticks are not applicable for eating food. Simply because you are not sure or properly trained in their use. "A man is not really beaten, until he is beaten with his own dog!" .............Spiderchoke "EVeryday spent training is one day closer to learning something." .........Spiderchoke __________________ "Every Man I meet is in some way my superior.....In that, I learn of him." .......Ralph Waldo Emerson

08-09-2003, 02:48 AM	#22 (permalink)
gracilva Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 293 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	not rhetoric, just confident. dont you agree that someone with little ground fighting expirience wouldn't last very long with an expierienced bjj'er. i was just stating that you dont have to grapple on the ground for very long or even go to ground for bjj to be effective __________________ peace.....for now

08-10-2003, 12:46 AM	#23 (permalink)
Cadden Novice Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 38 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I am personally skeptical of BJJ's street effectiveness. Taking someone to the ground immediately poses many problems. It makes retreat (be it the pulling of knife or gun) much harder and perhaps even impossible if you are in a hold or they are ontop of you. Also, it makes being jumped by more opponents easier, as your mobility on the ground against others standing up is almost nil. Then there is the nature of the ground: it is well and good to grapple and ground fight on a mat, but when you are in a crowded pub or on a concreate sidepath, things change and you may cause more injury to yourself than your enemy. I understand BJJ can be used as a stand up striking art, but I must say from what I have seen most of the striking is a means to take the fight to the ground, and can be better in every way by other striking arts. On the street and in a bar or at a party (where fights most commonly occur) BJJ is not the most effective combat art, in my experience. It is too reliant on competition rules and assumptions. I believe it is more logical and safer to keep the fight stand-up as long as possible and if you are taken to the ground, get up ASAP. When you are standing you are more aware of your surroundings, your opponents placement and intentions, you have more retreating options if necessary and you are at less risk of being taken by suprise from a group of attackers. I always hear the pseudo myth that all fights end on the ground, and to that I say, yes and no. If you let the fight go to the ground or take it there yourself then fine, but I have been in many fights on the street and in no rules competitions and I have managed to stay upright almost exclusively, and when I was taken to the ground, was able to get up quickly and continue. I see ground fighting as a side of fighting that is best avoided on the street, as it poses many problems that are not evident in Sport Fighting. Last edited by Cadden; 08-10-2003 at 12:50 AM.

08-10-2003, 12:54 AM	#26 (permalink)
Mr. Heel Hook Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Pepperell MA Posts: 441 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Yeah...yeah I did make that up on the fly didn't I. But yeah, anyway...it's all been said in the other post. Now I am going to take my time and make something else up for next time. __________________ "A deer admires a lion. But all the members of our family are lions. So it doesn't matter which lion I admire. " -Rener Gracie-

08-08-2003, 08:26 PM	#20 (permalink)
Thai Bri Premiere Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 5,423 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Keep back! Keep back! I have a goat, and I'm not afraid to use it!

08-10-2003, 12:51 AM	#25 (permalink)
Cadden Novice Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 38 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I explain it in my edit. And could you please back up your response instead of just throwing out made up insults.

08-10-2003, 03:34 AM	#27 (permalink)
shasan Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 223 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	i think a lot of people are assuming that an "attackee" will have the choice of keeping the fight standing up or not. Won't the fight go to the ground a lot of the time whether you want it or not? In this case I don't really think there's any other choice, regardless of how many attackers there are... shitty deal though. __________________ ------------ I hate it when people quote themselves in their sigs. - shasan.

08-10-2003, 03:53 AM	#28 (permalink)
jules Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 474 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	About BJJ and the streets... Let's just put it this way.. Unlike most other martail arts BJJ has bee tested in the streets of Rio and all over Brazil. And if you know anything about Brazil... it's not soft at all. It's hard. It's works in the gettos of Brazil it will work just about anywhere.

08-10-2003, 10:33 AM	#30 (permalink)
jules Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 474 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	and for the record, if anything I am a MT man.

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