Problems with TKD - Page 2

ryanhall · 08-13-2003, 04:57 AM

I really shouldn't be posting on this thread, but here it goes.

Problems with TKD:
1) Generally poor training methods.
2) Heavy foucs on least important fighting range (kicking).
3) Low hand guard.
4) Telegraphic, power draining body mechanics in most techniques
5) Emphasis on flashy techniques.
6) Low level of mobility, fluidity in stances.
7) Generally poor defensive maneuvers (see upward block to straight punch).
8) Point sparring.

Problems for self-defense? The list is endless.
Problems for the ring? See above list.

Can somebody somewhere use aspects of TKD successfully? Absolutely. Can the average person, or even the above average person? No, and probably not. EF will be the first to defend TKD, and he has some valid points. However, ultra-modified-ExcessiveForce-TKD is not traditional Tae Kwon Do.

The final word is this: if it looks real pretty, it ain't the real deal. Plain and simple. Read the forward to Tao of Jeet Kune Do. Bruce Lee says something similar.

Cain · 08-13-2003, 06:02 AM

hmm, so you think only modified tkd is good?

i would say that minimal tkd is better.. you take out all the flashy kicks, use the lowkicks, the knees, the elbows and the punches. You stop training forms for 80% of the time and start traning with more contact. IF you do this, tkd is more than enough.. the problem is that most tkd-schools seem to be after money.. and if you run full contact... hard trainings, you won't get all the soft ones.. that also pay! so therefore, you create something that can work as an illusion for many.. they think they can defend themselves..

and you make money..

so my point: tkd in itself CAN be very effective.. if you train it right.. I even like the "real life applications" book of Rhee Ki Ha.. it has a very nice way of showing how to defend yourself from sitting position.. lying down.. ect ect.. it is more like the krav maga aproach than the bjj.. "get the hell up, you don't want to be down there"

but that is so..

and again, the problem isn't tkd, it is the people instructing/leading it.. (and ofcourse, the pensum that contains a lot of bullshit.. cut the bullshit out, cut the pussy-instructors out and cut the kata-focus)

cakegirl · 08-13-2003, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Acitic
And i have a challage also tell me how to improve this kick

The problem with this kick: it is arrogant. It assumes that it is going to land and to knock out. Regardless of the skill of the kicker, this might not happen every time - but the kicker is not prepared for what will happen next.

This kick could be improved drastically if the kicker kept a guard so that upon landing, they are ready to defend any counter attacks.

~Cakegirl

Ghost · 08-13-2003, 08:16 AM

ACITIC make sure you read my reply on page 1 i would like you to respond to it.

falcon3624 · 08-13-2003, 08:34 AM

Ghost is totally right and that is what I have been saying since day one. Most of the time when you see a TKD person fight on the street if they get the opportunity to throw that first kick they get knocked the hell out right after.

LEARN TO BLOCK OR GET KNOCKED OUT!!!!!

Toudiyama[NL] · 08-13-2003, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ghost
Here is a Thai kick, Notice how , although the the kick is blocked, the kicker has left themselves well defended, only the groin is exposed, solar plexus, chin and throat are not attackable.

At the moment of contact "my" (Wado karate) Mawashigeri (roudhousekick) looks exactly the same, hands and all, only it starts by bending the knee

below an example of a bad kick as some of you have learned it during their Shotokan Karateclasses
Upperbody not aligned and hips not used, as well as the hand being in the wrong position

Darn shouldn't preview if I have attached something

Toudiyama[NL] · 08-13-2003, 09:14 AM

Here's the pic

falcon3624 · 08-13-2003, 09:50 AM

That's one ugly kick.

Toudiyama[NL] · 08-13-2003, 09:55 AM

or this one, first one was improper use of hips this one the hands too

falcon3624 · 08-13-2003, 10:08 AM

Man, I just love the way they get up on their very tippy toes. Wonder how much it would take to sweep that leg out? LOL

Ghost · 08-13-2003, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Toudiyama[NL]
or this one, first one was improper use of hips this one the hands too

AH DEAR NOTE THE LACK OF HIP ROTATION AS THE HIPS ARE BEHIND the leg not in front where they should be take another look at the thai pic i posted

Cain · 08-13-2003, 10:37 AM

well.. about up on the toes.. many thais do that too.. but that i so..

Toudiyama[NL] · 08-13-2003, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ghost

AH DEAR NOTE THE LACK OF HIP ROTATION AS THE HIPS ARE BEHIND the leg not in front where they should be take another look at the thai pic i posted

Typacly Shotokan I would say

Szczepankiewicz · 08-13-2003, 11:15 AM

Quote:

foucs

Whaddehell is a foucs?

Toudiyama[NL] · 08-13-2003, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Szczepankiewicz

Whaddehell is a foucs?

da da that's all foucs

08-13-2003, 04:57 AM	#16 (permalink)
ryanhall Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 1,247 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I really shouldn't be posting on this thread, but here it goes. Problems with TKD: 1) Generally poor training methods. 2) Heavy foucs on least important fighting range (kicking). 3) Low hand guard. 4) Telegraphic, power draining body mechanics in most techniques 5) Emphasis on flashy techniques. 6) Low level of mobility, fluidity in stances. 7) Generally poor defensive maneuvers (see upward block to straight punch). 8) Point sparring. Problems for self-defense? The list is endless. Problems for the ring? See above list. Can somebody somewhere use aspects of TKD successfully? Absolutely. Can the average person, or even the above average person? No, and probably not. EF will be the first to defend TKD, and he has some valid points. However, ultra-modified-ExcessiveForce-TKD is not traditional Tae Kwon Do. The final word is this: if it looks real pretty, it ain't the real deal. Plain and simple. Read the forward to Tao of Jeet Kune Do. Bruce Lee says something similar. __________________ "Ray, when someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!"

08-13-2003, 06:02 AM	#17 (permalink)
Cain Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 388 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	hmm, so you think only modified tkd is good? i would say that minimal tkd is better.. you take out all the flashy kicks, use the lowkicks, the knees, the elbows and the punches. You stop training forms for 80% of the time and start traning with more contact. IF you do this, tkd is more than enough.. the problem is that most tkd-schools seem to be after money.. and if you run full contact... hard trainings, you won't get all the soft ones.. that also pay! so therefore, you create something that can work as an illusion for many.. they think they can defend themselves.. and you make money.. so my point: tkd in itself CAN be very effective.. if you train it right.. I even like the "real life applications" book of Rhee Ki Ha.. it has a very nice way of showing how to defend yourself from sitting position.. lying down.. ect ect.. it is more like the krav maga aproach than the bjj.. "get the hell up, you don't want to be down there" but that is so.. and again, the problem isn't tkd, it is the people instructing/leading it.. (and ofcourse, the pensum that contains a lot of bullshit.. cut the bullshit out, cut the pussy-instructors out and cut the kata-focus) __________________ any given fighter can beat any given fighter on any given day.. so.. what are you waiting for Rickson, I'm here..

08-13-2003, 09:14 AM	#22 (permalink)
Toudiyama[NL] Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Zaandam, Netherlands Posts: 1,389 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Here's the pic Attached Images __________________

08-13-2003, 09:55 AM	#24 (permalink)
Toudiyama[NL] Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Zaandam, Netherlands Posts: 1,389 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	or this one, first one was improper use of hips this one the hands too Attached Images __________________

08-13-2003, 10:37 AM	#27 (permalink)
Cain Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 388 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	well.. about up on the toes.. many thais do that too.. but that i so.. __________________ any given fighter can beat any given fighter on any given day.. so.. what are you waiting for Rickson, I'm here..

08-13-2003, 08:34 AM	#20 (permalink)
falcon3624 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Louisiana Posts: 946 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ghost is totally right and that is what I have been saying since day one. Most of the time when you see a TKD person fight on the street if they get the opportunity to throw that first kick they get knocked the hell out right after. LEARN TO BLOCK OR GET KNOCKED OUT!!!!!

08-13-2003, 09:50 AM	#23 (permalink)
falcon3624 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Louisiana Posts: 946 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	That's one ugly kick.

08-13-2003, 10:08 AM	#25 (permalink)
falcon3624 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Louisiana Posts: 946 Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Man, I just love the way they get up on their very tippy toes. Wonder how much it would take to sweep that leg out? LOL

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